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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Do we really understand?

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rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Do we really understand?



1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Matthew 7:1-2 (KJV)

I was just wondering how many of us truly understand this portion of scripture.

How do you think the Lord wants us to take heed to this scripture? Do you really think there is an important message the Lord wants us to understand concerning "judging others"?






 2012/7/17 10:50Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5373
NC, USA

 Re: Do we really understand?

I think Oswald Chambers has the classic statement regarding this:
_____________________
Beware of Criticizing Others
Oswald Chambers

~Judge not lest ye be judged~

Jesus’ instructions with regard to judging others is very simply put; He says, "Don’t." The average Christian is the most piercingly critical individual known. Criticism is one of the ordinary activities of people, but in the spiritual realm nothing is accomplished by it. The effect of criticism is the dividing up of the strengths of the one being criticized. The Holy Spirit is the only one in the proper position to criticize, and He alone is able to show what is wrong without hurting and wounding. It is impossible to enter into fellowship with God when you are in a critical mood. Criticism serves to make you harsh, vindictive, and cruel, and leaves you with the soothing and flattering idea that you are somehow superior to others. Jesus says that as His disciple you should cultivate a temperament that is never critical. This will not happen quickly but must be developed over a span of time. You must constantly beware of anything that causes you to think of yourself as a superior person.

There is no escaping the penetrating search of my life by Jesus. If I see the little speck in your eye, it means that I have a plank of timber in my own (see Matthew 7:3-5 ). Every wrong thing that I see in you, God finds in me. Every time I judge, I condemn myself (see Romans 2:17-24 ). Stop having a measuring stick for other people. There is always at least one more fact, which we know nothing about, in every person’s situation. The first thing God does is to give us a thorough spiritual cleaning. After that, there is no possibility of pride remaining in us. I have never met a person I could despair of, or lose all hope for, after discerning what lies in me apart from the grace of God."
_______________________________

The part I love the most: " There is always at least one more fact, which we know nothing about, in every person’s situation." I keep trying to remind myself of this but sometimes it just doesn't "take."


_________________
Todd

 2012/7/17 12:31Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, many fall into trouble in this area because there are many greek words that are translated into the word judge. some we have to do and others are forbidden. the problem is that the forbidden (krino) is now the most widely used. it is dangerous to allign yourself with the accuser of the brethren.(satan).jimp

 2012/7/17 12:55Profile
EverestoSama
Member



Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


 Re: Do we really understand?

Potentially one of the most misquoted and misunderstood passages in Scripture.

People use this verse constantly to justify avoiding the confrontation of error.

If we point out something that goes against the Word of God, it's not us judging, as it's something that God has already judged Himself. There's a vast difference between the two.

And I do mean VAST.

Notice how if anyone ever says that something goes against what the Word teaches, you'll automatically start seeing this verse fly around. Doesn't matter if you don't say anything specific/personal about who came out with the false teaching (though there are times that this must be addressed as well).

Anyone who has a love for the Truth, and of the Word should well appreciate having everything they say measured by the same standard (The Bible). We're already going to be judged by what it says, so it should equally be our standard to judge by, as we're not the ones judging (which God didn't give us the right to do, since our standard is skewed, while His is not).

Remember, it's not us judging if God has already said that something is so.


 2012/7/17 13:26Profile
IssacharSon
Member



Joined: 2012/7/12
Posts: 185
Southeast USA

 Genesis 50: 19

This is such as important question.

There should be antire thread devoted to this question.

Today, I learned about judgment in light of a brief study of Joseph's response to his brothers in Genesis 50:19:

"But Joseph said to them, 'Do not be afraid! Am I in the place of God?'" (Gen. 50:19 NRSV)

Forgiveness. The strange bedfellow of judgment. Judgment is only helpful when self-inflicted. As the secret of every possible human evil can be revealed in my own heart. Judgment, therefore, should always be accompanied with a mirror.

Judgment. Ahh! Perhaps judgment is one of the few acts of the will which complement self-consciousness. Judgment is one of those rare opportunities whereby self-focus is necessary. It is the only time that the "self" adopts a reliable perception of reality. Self-judgment, that is.

This admonition regarding judgment in Matthew 7:2 also counsels us about a crucial feature of forgiveness.

The altar of Self-judgment presents a favorable atmosphere for the sacrifice of forgiveness.

Judgment results in a concept based on the phenomena of human behavior. Yet, I don't even trust my own sensory perception lest it is vettied through Christ's nature.

Judging others starts with Christ, then - automatically leaps to Forgiveness (not necessarily the elimination of consequences).

Yet, even if judgment starts with the "self" and not "Christ" - it should still lead to forgiveness, as it (according God's Word) operates most effectively when rooted in a self-ish principle (I. e., "Judge ye not, that 'YE' be..." - Matthew 7: 1).

I probably sound confused (which I am used to by now), hence, I'd love to hear more about the very mysterious and divine nature of judgment and forgiveness?

This is why I love SI so much, you read Oswald Chambers?!?

Love-in-Christ,

KP

 2012/7/17 14:34Profile
IssacharSon
Member



Joined: 2012/7/12
Posts: 185
Southeast USA

 Re: Genesis 50: 19

This is such as important question.

There should be an entire thread devoted to this question.

Today, I learned about judgment in light of a brief study of Joseph's response to his brothers in Genesis 50:19:

"But Joseph said to them, 'Do not be afraid! Am I in the place of God?'" (Gen. 50:19 NRSV)

Forgiveness. The strange bedfellow of judgment. Judgment is only helpful when self-inflicted. As the secret of every possible human evil can be revealed in my own heart. Judgment, therefore, should always be accompanied with a mirror.

Judgment. Ahh! Perhaps judgment is one of the few acts of the will which complement self-consciousness. Judgment is one of those rare opportunities where self-focus is necessary. It is the only time that the "self" adopts a reliable perception of reality. Self-judgment, that is.

This admonition regarding judgment in Matthew 7:2 also counsels us about a crucial feature of forgiveness.

The altar of Self-judgment presents a favorable atmosphere for the sacrifice of forgiveness.

Judgment results in a concept based on the phenomena of human behavior. Yet, I don't even trust my own sensory perception lest it is vetted through Christ's nature.

Judging others starts with Christ, then - automatically leaps to Forgiveness (not necessarily the elimination of consequences).

Yet, even if judgment starts with the "self" and not "Christ" - it should still lead to forgiveness, as it (according to God's Word) operates most effectively when rooted in a self-ish principle (I. e., "Judge ye not, that 'YE' be..." - Matthew 7: 1).

I probably sound confused (which I am used to by now), hence, I'd love to hear more about the very mysterious and divine nature of judgment and forgiveness?

This is why I love SI so much, you read Oswald Chambers?!?

Love-in-Christ,

KP

 2012/7/17 14:34Profile
mama27
Member



Joined: 2010/11/20
Posts: 1379


 Re:

There is an excellent little book on this subject (72 pp.) called, "To Judge or Not to Judge!" by Edwin and Lillian Harvey. You can purchase it for $5.95 here...

http://www.harveycp.com/to-judge-or-not-to-judge.html

I had obtained permission from the publisher to type out portions of it for this site, but then I realized there were no "portions" I could cut out.

As EverestoSama says, I believe many have misconstrued this passage.

The authors say in their foreword, "We do not write for the able theologians. We leave that to more talented scholars. We share our gleanings with humble Christian men and women who, longing to be obedient to God, are confused by the babel of voices raised in protest against that righteous judgment which waxes indignant when God's glory and honor are at stake."

 2012/7/17 15:03Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5373
NC, USA

 Re:

Everest wrote:
"Potentially one of the most misquoted and misunderstood passages in Scripture.

People use this verse constantly to justify avoiding the confrontation of error."

I agree, but clearly that is not the context of the passage. It is about judging people. It is about judging that "thug" walking down the street with his pants hanging down who looks like he is up to no good. It is about judging the Kardashians, instead of praying for them.

I think it is important not to deflect discussion of what this passage means by stating what it doesn't mean. What it DOES mean is enough to be getting on with.


_________________
Todd

 2012/7/17 15:59Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Wow! Excellent replies! I appreciate all the contributions to this thread!

I have really enjoyed reading the many posts so far but I still believe that there is much too still learn about not judging others. I find that it is much easier to judge others than it is to show mercy to them. It is much easier to believe the wrong we hear about others, that many times will lead us to judge or condemn, than to be willing to be merciful toward others hoping that the wrong may not be true.

I also think that Jesus teaches us to truly love people, to do good to them, and even if they do us wrong be quick to forgive them.

Luke 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

James 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?


I could go “on and on” but the bible also says in Proverbs 17:9 He that covereth a transgression seeketh love; but he that repeateth a matter separateth very friends.

I still wonder if we really understand?

Blessings...from brother rbanks

 2012/7/17 16:02Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2000
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: Do we really understand?

I think it is really important that we look at these verses in context and compare them with other verses in the New Testament on this issue. Here is the context.

Mat 7:1-5
(1) Judge not, that ye be not judged.
(2) For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
(3) And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
(4) Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
(5) Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

The point being made here is not that we should not judge. That interpretation is to lift the first verse out of context entirely. The point is that we will be judged with the same judgement that we have toward others. Before judging, we should be careful to allow God to deal with and cleanse us in the arena in which we are about to judge another. For example, If I have repented of bitterness and unforgiveness and walk in love, forgiveness, and grace, then I am able to judge properly another who is walking in bitterness or unforgiveness. But judgement in this sense does not mean condemnation. It means to differentiate between two things. It means to be able to identify and approach a fault or sin in another with the love of Christ and in the Spirit so that my judgement is just, righteous, and bears peaceable fruit.

Jesus dealt with just this scenario when He was rebuked for healing on the Sabbath. Joh 7:23-24
(23) If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?
(24) Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

We are told that we will judge the world in the end, so we ought to be able, in the church, to judge right and wrong in matters of this world. 1Co 6:1-3
(1) Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
(2) Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
(3) Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Again, it is not condemnation in the sense of passing final judgement in this world, but it is a distinguishing between right and wrong. Paul goes on to advise that we ought to set those least esteemed in the body over this work of judging who is right and who is wrong in a dispute between brothers.

The issue with judgment is that it comes back to us in the same form it goes out from us. If I deal with my brothers and sisters in the Spirit, acting in the love of God and humility, that is the judgement that will exercised toward me. If I judge harshly, proudly, and in my flesh, that is what I can expect to be judged by in my failures as well.





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Travis

 2012/7/17 17:07Profile





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