| Re: There were giants in the land in those days......|
QUOTE: "Secondly, the reference is to them not being married, not to their ability or inability to have sex, and Jesus is referring to the Resurrection time, which these fallen angels will never see. Neither holy angels or holy man will be married, or have sex, in a holy heaven, I agree."==BROTHERTOM
This is another topic i think a whole lot about. I often think, could sex of the flesh down here be justa prototype of far better and different kind of union in Heaven that people will have? Could it be perhaps, that the kind of union we will be able to experience in Heaven will be so euphoric and so intense & powerful that it would kill MORTAL man to experience it? Perhaps we will be able to experience a union there that makes sex seem dull by comparison. I think there HAS to be some kind of such experience there, cuz otherwise there are going to be a lot of people disappointed and longing for sex. Cuz let's be honest, there is not a person alive who does NOT want sex (unless he/she has some sort of mental disorder, low hormone levels, trauma, or other abnormality) So i think there will be a union of some kind that replaces sex with other people, but with an even greater ecstasy. And once we are free of these bodies, then we have nothing to cause us to desire sex. Afterall, no one wanted sex when they were 5 years old. It was just the horror of puberty and those wicked hormones that screwed everything up! Before that, we were all fine and clear-headed!
Secondly, pondering the absence of marriage there...this can be extremely disheartening to those who have never married and desire the intimacy of marriage...maybe it means we will all just be like children there...or maybe it means there just won't be any need for it. Or maybe it means both. Maybe there will be no need for a covenant between two people who love each other, or much more rather we will all be so rooted in Christ as our bridegroom King and our union/intimacy with Him that that is the only thing that will matter.
| 2012/7/14 20:41||Profile|
| Re: |
Trekker, God is so beautiful that you will never get tired of Him. I believe that being with Him is more than enough. His glory, brilliance, goodness and so on is portrayed clearly in the bible. Even Moses after speaking with God had a radiant face. And when God cause all His goodness to pass in front of Moses, He had to cover him with his hand and Moses could only see His back.Even the seraphs covered their faces in the presence of the Lord
| 2012/7/14 22:29||Profile|
| Re: |
Nephilim, supernatural beings do not fascinate nor distract me, (Thank the Lord). Afterall, Christ is the penultimate supernatural being. His being is all the distraction and wonder I need.
This thread is getting weird and weirder....
| 2012/7/14 22:33||Profile|
| Re: |
Good points, bro.
I was waiting for someone to bring those Scriptures up.
| 2012/7/14 22:40||Profile|
| Re: nephilim|
You asked: "What are your thoughts on whom the sons of god versus the daughters of men?"
For instance, I read a recent Thread here about the meaning behind the prayer closet.
It requires the attributes of a 'renewed mind' to see the truth behind the phrase 'closet'.
Our Lord used he word 'closet' in Matthew 6:6 amongst other places: "But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret".
Prayer is an activity which takes place in secret; in the heavenly places. The term 'closet' shows that during prayer a man shuts himself off from natural life. The meaning of the words of Jesus in Matthew 24:26 are now clear to us. The 'closet' is the unseen inner man.
Of course, what would anyone know about the workings of the 'inner man' unless his mind has first been sufficiently renewed to comprehend it? What would a natural orientated mind know about being "seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus"?
Not surprisingly, we find many chasing a multitude of theories and dusting off an endless variety of commentaries and ancient word origins to hopefully discover treasures. Yes, these can often be useful, but only a renewed mind can uncover the spiritual treasures.
The Bible clearly says, "Even angels long to look into these things". If the very angels are unable to fully comprehend God's intents and purposes towards man, why would we Christians continue to believe that we can somehow see into things without a renewed mind?
Couple this with, "None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord".
And people still don't understand the urgency of having a renewed mind? This is astounding when you think about it.
Ask anyone if the devil can read our thoughts. You would probably get a hundred different answers; unfortunately, most of them again would be desperate theories and futile speculations.
Now, to your question: "sons of god versus the daughters of men"? (Sorry for the long introduction).
Yes, some commentaries and word origin studies can assist our knowing, but the full understanding can only be understood by a renewed mind.
Jesus made a direct connection between the last days we live in and the prehistoric times, with the words: "For as it was in the days of Noah, so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be", (Matt 24:37).
[This was edited Jully-16-2012]
| 2012/7/15 0:12||Profile|
| Re: nephilim|
Two things stand out in this passage.
One is that there was a marriage disparity. Whom did the sons of men marry? No one. Their women went for someone else. This resulted in great wickedness and violence. There are situations today in our multi-cultural societies that are similar and we will also pay a price in violence. We need to wake up to this.
Secondly, look up information on Montauk, illuminati, Svali, Fritz Springmeier, etc. Lots of information. I've met a man who said that he had had sex with these beings. He said the sex was the best he had ever had. These beings are real and they are organized (as organized as demons can be) and have a hierarchy. Look up the stories of those who have come out of mind control. Ephesians 6 speaks of powers and principalities.
| 2012/7/15 4:09||Profile|
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"Oiketerion is the heavenly body we are striving for while it is the body the angels shed when they sinned. Hope this clears a bit up."..NMatheson
I had never considered this NM; thank-you. It makes sense, doesn't it. We see Lucifer, once sublime, joyful and radiant morphed into a reptillian like dragon. [ The awful sentence of his transgression..] This event must have fueled his contempt for the Father Jahweh. [ Jesus and the Father are one. Consider yourself being made a lizard...]
I had another thought about the Nephalim [ who I consider to be the offspring of demons and men..] I cannot believe that God would allow the innocent women of Earth to be taken by these demons at will. I am guessing here, deducting my ideas considering what I know of the justice and character of God, but it seems that they were complicit.
"So God looked upon the earth, and indeed it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth."
And God said to Noah, The end of all flesh has come before Me, for the earth is filled with violence through them; and behold, I will destroy them with the earth."
....And, of course, He did. We are not told which line, of either Ham or Japheth, [ descendants of Anak ] or exactly when the Nephilum reappeared after the great wipe-out [ the flood ], but they did. [ Maybe of the seed of Nimrod, the satanic father of Babylon?]
Because this phenomenon is so mysticly perverted and bizzare, is it to be ignored as anathema? No! It is very important, as to consider the wicked supernatural as a reality to war against.
We know there were "Giants in the land"
There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.
There we saw the giants (the descendants of Anak came from the giants); and we were like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight.
They were also regarded as giants, like the Anakim, but the Moabites call them Emim.
That was also regarded as a land of giants; giants formerly dwelt there. But the Ammonites call them Zamzummim.
There appeared to be a king of a land that was a Nephalim.
For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of the giants. Indeed his bedstead was an iron bedstead. (Is it not in Rabbah of the people of Ammon?) Nine cubits is its length and four cubits its width, according to the standard cubit.....and the Israelites under Joshua had hand to hand combat with them. The demon-men had a country, and a land; Argob, and a region, BASHAN.
The rest of Gilead, and all Bashan, the kingdom of Og, I gave to half the tribe of Manasseh. (All the region of Argob, with all Bashan, was called the land of the giants.
The other king was Og king of Bashan and his territory, who was of the remnant of the giants, who dwelt at Ashtaroth and at Edrei.
I have been to Ashtaroth, in North Israel today. The great flood occured in circa 1614 BC., and the demon-men appeared about 150 years after, and remained on Earth at least 500 years to the time of Davis and his mighty men, 1014 BC. The last recorded one alive was here:
When the Philistines were at war again with Israel, David and his servants with him went down and fought against the Philistines; and David grew faint.
Then Ishbi-Benob, who was one of the sons of the giant, the weight of whose bronze spear was three hundred shekels, who was bearing a new sword, thought he could kill David.
ABISHAI was one tough Israeli warrior....
But Abishai the son of Zeruiah came to his aid, and struck the Philistine and killed him. Then the men of David swore to him, saying, You shall go out no more with us to battle, lest you quench the lamp of Israel.
18 Now it happened afterward that there was again a battle with the Philistines at Gob. Then Sibbechai the Hushathite killed Saph, who was one of the sons of the giant.
19 Again there was war at Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaare-Oregim the Bethlehemite killed the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weavers beam.
Yet again there was war at Gath, where there was a man of great stature, who had six fingers on each hand and six toes on each foot, twenty-four in number; and he also was born to the giant. So when he defied Israel, Jonathan the son of Shimea, Davids brother, killed him. [ David's nephew ]
22 These four were born to the giant in Gath, and fell by the hand of David and by the hand of his servants.
So, we see, that the Nephalim could pro-create too. There may be something about the Anti-Christ similar...as he is called "The son of Perdition." The Nephalim were a spiritual counterpart to something that is very real today, and in considering them, in the light of the Gospel, may enlighten us to the severity, and the reality of the battle we are in today.
All eyes on Jesus, Eh?
| 2012/7/15 6:44|
| Re: nephilim|
I don't see that angels can be referred to as "sons of God". That is akin to saying "all men are his children" and saying Jesus is not the only begotten son. While all men are His creation they are not all His children. Angels have no need of salvation and will never know of it. Jesus was/is not the savior of angels. It isn't the angels who rejoice when a sinner is saved, but those who are among them. Why? Because they don't know a personal need of salvation and will never experience it.
The verse in Genesis has to be referring to godly Jewish men who intermarried [against God's will] with those women of pagan gods and non believers. Nephilim being one result or consequence of disobedience.
There is question about scripture which teaches angels can't procreate, where are the verses which indicate they can? In the scriptures, only Godly males are adopted "Sons of God".
The topic is certainly interesting but we should be careful to avoid what IMO boarders pagan mysticism.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
| 2012/7/15 8:29||Profile|
| Re: |
"When humankind began to multiply on the face of the earth and daughters were born to them, the son's of God saw the daughters of humankind were beautiful. They took wives for themselves from any they chose."
I could see a couple of problems brewing here. The term humankind presents a specific part of creation. Unnecessary except for the identification and specification of that which contrasts it. Is it unusual for humankind to take for themselves humankind but I would agree that there should be no underestimation of the offense of one chosen by God to partake of what is suppose to be a Godly union and partnership of belief with one who is foreign to God.
A Godly jewish line pre- Abraham might be a problem but in the overall context of what is being presented, we arrive regardless of our opinion at a rebellious union, no matter the players. Rebellion is never without consequences. Once again pointing to the only One who can rescue the fallen man. Might one walk away from a great plane crash with no other survivors and ask God, "Why me Lord?"
| 2012/7/15 9:39||Profile|
| Re: |
I absolutely agree with your comment saying, "In the Old Testament, I believe the term 'sons of God' was only used of angels". The phrase "sons of God" in the Old Testament only references angels, (eg: Job 1:6, 2:1, 38:7; Dan 3:25.28).
This is in keeping with the fact that the term "sons of God" indicates beings (angels) produced by the Creator Himself. This is why Adam too is a "son of God", as Jesus stated in Luke 3:38.
Subsequently, the regenerated humanity, the New Creation is "incorruptible seed, by the living and enduring word of God born again", (1Pet 1:23) and also bears the name "sons of God", (Rom 8:19; Gal 4:6).
I would also like to add the following to your keen observation concerning the 'nephilim':
To fully grasp the Genesis narrative, one has to connect it to Jesus saying, "For as it was in the days of Noah, so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be", (Matt 24:37).
I mentioned earlier that we need a 'renewed mind' to comprehend this Genesis account; meaning to say, we have to "put our minds on things above", (Col 3:2).
"The daughters of men" were those who God viewed as those who would produce marriageable daughters; those whom God desired and purposed to connect to as one. So it was that God later spoke about Israel as "the daughter of Zion" or the daughter of My people.
But here is where we need to "set our minds on things above" ... aka: "And here [is] the mind which hath wisdom" ... to understand how there were "nephilim" and that "they left their own home", (Jude 6), and sought communion with the spirits of men.
We positively know that God does not create malformations and abnormalities; He has nothing to do with anything which disrupts the purposeful harmony in His creation.
Therefore, we recognize that the origin of the deviant and grotesque creatures belong to the evil one.
The disruption and violence narrated in the Genesis account was caused particularly destructive angels which had powers of immense wickedness unprecedented heights of violence.
In the endtime, (according to Rev 9:11), their commander will again be revealed in the visible world. His name is there in the Hebrew, 'Abaddon'.
Peter wrote: "For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness"(2Pet 2:4,5). Peter was writing about an especially evil category of angels.
Jude 6 further informs, "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day".
Then we can connect the Genesis account to what Jesus said in Matt 24:37) with Revelation 9:1-2, "And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit".
"But as the days of Noah [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be".
Note the above verse stating: "marrying and giving in marriage". This is a mirror of the Genesis account. Men will seek to become united (married) to the Antichrist, the son of Apollyon, (Abaddon).
There's alot more which can be said about this, but my Post is much too lengthy as it is.
But I want to again thank you for sharing your view because it greatly encouraged me.
| 2012/7/15 9:42||Profile|