| Re: |
Wombat, can you site the scripture(s) for angels being sexless? I have been studying this too lately due to the questions of my older daughter concerning Genisis 6. Much to be reflected on I believe.
| 2012/7/14 11:32||Profile|
| There were giants in the land in those days......|
"And the Lord said, My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.
"There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown."
So, how do you explain the giants? Giants being "Mighty men of reknown." Even though these were slain at the flood, it is apparent that again, these evil angels were able to enter into pro-creation upon Earth.
Goliath and his brothers came from this seed. Angels did take women on Earth to wife, as bizarre as it sounds, and had sons of their own.
"The word of God states that angels are sexless, neither Godly nor fallen angels can have sex. That alone undermines that teaching." wombat1
The Word of God never once says that angels are sexless, nor does it state that they cannot have sex.
"Jesus answered and said to them, You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God.
For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven."
First of all, this is referring to holy angels and the holy redeemed; to the angels of God, in HEAVEN; not the angels of Satan. Men will be like them; we will not marry.
Secondly, the reference is to them not being married, not to their ability or inability to have sex, and Jesus is referring to the Resurrection time, which these fallen angels will never see. Neither holy angels or holy man will be married, or have sex, in a holy heaven, I agree.
"There is also a related teaching of a pre adamic creation which is where the Nephilim may have originated. Either we believe Gods word concerning Adam being the first man or we do not." wombat1
The reference to the Nephilim, has nothing to do with a pre-Adamic creation of mankind in my mind, but everything to do with a pre-Adamic rebellion in Heaven of angels; where holy angels became evil angels.
These unholy angels tempted the first man at the edge of the garden, in the tree. After that fall, it appears to me, that they defiled that first body of men, through fornicating with the women they chose; there-by creating these extra-humans; 10 feet tall monsters; half human, half demon; mighty men of reknown, like Goliath, or "Hercules".
This is the Bible explanation. Do you have another answer to as how these beings arrived on earth?
"And a champion went out from the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, from Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span. [ 10 feet high]
He had a bronze helmet on his head, and he was armed with a coat of mail, and the weight of the coat was five thousand shekels of bronze. [ 125 lbs.]
And he had bronze armor on his legs and a bronze javelin between his shoulders.
Now the staff of his spear was like a weavers beam, and his iron spearhead weighed six hundred shekels; and a shield-bearer went before him."
There are several more mentioned in the Bible; a "race of giants."..IE: Nephilim.
| 2012/7/14 12:09|
| Re: |
I don't know but this sure is a head banging topic that I hadn't given much thought to until this thread.
I'm looking at it since Wombat posted and the word "nephilim" is only found twice in the OT and the other place is after the flood destroyed those first ones - Num 13:33 - "And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, **which come of the giants**: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight."
There's other verses that talk about men that were "tall[er]" and again they're of the same peoples mentioned above - Deu 1:28 "Whither shall we go up? our brethren have discouraged our heart, saying, The people is greater and taller than we; the cities are great and walled up to heaven; and moreover we have seen the sons of the Anakims there."
From Genesis 6:2 through the remainder of that chpt, GOD only talks about "man & men" - that caught my eye most.
Could it just be that these evil doers [men/humans] were demon possessed and it doesn't quite have much to do with their height?
Gen 6:12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all *flesh* had corrupted his way upon the earth.
Just reading all of Genesis 6 to see if there is anything other than "flesh and men" that would differentiate these giants with those of Anak [post flood].
| 2012/7/14 12:46|
| Re: |
"The word of God states that angels are sexless, neither Godly nor fallen angels can have sex. That alone undermines that teaching."
Where does the word of God state this? Jesus said in Mt. 22: "At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven."
If that is the scripture you are relying on, I believe you are reading more into it than is actually there.
| 2012/7/14 13:20||Profile|
| Re: |
Back to why I did believe the fallen angels part - was because the term "the sons of God" is only mentioned in Genesis 6:2&4 and Job 1:6 - 2:1 & 38:7.
All angels in the Job accounts - both fallen and not fallen.
| 2012/7/14 13:26|
| Re: Of Course there were Nephilim...|
Yet, why is this so hard for us to grasp and grip. They were not that different in feature and stature than the average hyper-cosmeticized "Basketball Wife" in stilleto heels or other "larger than life" steroid pumped IFBB Pro or other metamodern day celebrity with all the plastic surgery, high-topped false tresses, etc. and you probably have a 21st century descendant of Gath.
(not trying to be comical, but seriously)
And aren't most folks striving to have their bodies morphed into all sorts of asymmetrical abominations of the created human form via surgical procedures, most of which are meant to amplify human features such as lips, muscles, bone structure, etc?
These are indeed the "Days of Noah" and all that encompassed this particular age still exists in our own.
| 2012/7/14 14:19||Profile|
| Re: |
Ginnyrose, "If God did not want to talk about it, maybe we should limit our inquiry into it"
I agree with the futility in areas God has been silent, but I don't find very many of them. What I do seem to find is much tradition that has crept into what is so often taught.
I believe that our search for Christ in the scriptures, whether Old or New testament should lead us into great exercises and meditations. One could easily pursue a subject like the Nephilim as a fact finding mission, but like our true pursuit, where in it do we find Christ and a deeper appreciation of God? Surely the word drips with it and He is just waiting for our contemplation just as a Father waits for his young and learning child's new discoveries.
Trying to get one's head around the whole condition of mankind in such great depravity and rebellion that God said, "NO MORE!" (paraphrase) Mankind except for a man favored by God and that man's immediate family would be the only survivors out of an entire planet.
Then no sooner off the ark and his son does an evil that Leviticus 18 greatly warns off as deserving death and a small but further insite as to why God's patience bore no longer with man's unbridled desires. What other great depravities abounded preflood that man has since taken liberty of God's grace when God promised He would no longer destroy the earth by water? Does pagan Egypt and the promised land of Canaan hold a better people? A necessary ethnic cleansing where child and animal must parish and even the ground purified by fire? Are we not like these without Christ? Certainly our day is as evil.
Strange flesh an angel and a woman, strange flesh a blood relative with a blood relative, strange flesh a human with an animal, strange flesh a man with a man or woman with a woman. It all seems to speak of the condition of mankind in rebellion to God's order. An order He has created for His creatures very protection. HOW DESPERATE THE NEED FOR A SAVIOR FROM ALL OF THIS.
What a great creator we have in Christ who has designed so beautifully a creation with order so that we might further begin to understand, praise, and thank Him that He has opened the eyes of those once blind.
| 2012/7/14 18:20||Profile|
| Re: nephilim|
Something that always stuck out to me was that as far as I know, we are not sons of God until the acceptance of Christ when we are made a new creation.
John 1:12 - But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name
The term "sons of God" refers to an original creation of Jesus Himself. In the old testament, I believe the term "sons of God" was only used of the angels. It wasn't until after the death of Christ that we had this ability.
Jude 1:6 - And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
The word habitation used here is called Oiketerion in greek.
This word is only used twice in the Bible. The other time is in...
2 Corinthians 5:2 - For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven
The word "house" is the translated word.
Oiketerion is the heavenly body we are striving for while it is the body the angels shed when they sinned. Hope this clears a bit up.
I must say though, it is easy to develop an interest in the occult because of this knowledge so i would warn you ahead of time to seek God. In Him you will find truth and only in Him.
| 2012/7/14 18:58||Profile|
| Re: |
I pray for our minds. The tempter permeates and distorts the Word of God at all angles with his own angled perspective.
Nephilim, supernatural beings do not fascinate nor distract me, (Thank the Lord). Afterall, Christ is the penultimate supernatural being. His being is all the distraction and wonder I need.
| 2012/7/14 19:24||Profile|
| Re: |
QUOTE: "JFB? Faucet Brown? stated that the sons of men where from one of the tribes/countries and the women from one of the others. this is also supported by the Schofield teaching.
It has been said that scripture interpretes scripture. The word of God states that angels are sexless, neither Godly nor fallen angels can have sex. That alone undermines that teaching."==WOMBAT
Ahoy! I see you are from the Land Down Under! Always nice to meet someone from Australia. : )
I don't know what to think about the gender of angels, mate'. : ) I have always understood them to be male. But let's assume that they ARE sexless, that still does NOT mean they cannot have sex with humans. If (as they clearly have at times according to scripture) they take on the form of a man then they clearly would be able to engage in sex.
I don't know what you are referring to in the first paragraph. The scripture did not use the term "sons of men" but rather "sons of God". They took wives from the "daughters of men", finding them very "fair". And the result of this mating was that they produced "giants" (in my King James the term "nephilim" is not used).
And this here is the reason i have always had trouble understanding how angels could mate with women: because angels are VERY LARGE. It takes giants to produce giants, except if there is some genetic anomaly or hormonal disorder. But what do i know, it's not as if i have ever met an angel (to my knowledge). Am just finding it wierd. I have read some good articles out there on this topic on the web though. Most state the Nephilim were the offspring of fallen angels.
| 2012/7/14 20:13||Profile|