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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Gap fact or theory??

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jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, although i am a gapper, it is strickly theory.jimp

 2012/7/13 6:22Profile
mguldner
Member



Joined: 2009/12/4
Posts: 1860
Kansas

 Re:

The gap theory is totally legit, infact in the original Hebrew text there are extra spaces throughout Genesis 1 that can only be proof this theory is indeed fact.

(jk)


_________________
Matthew Guldner

 2012/7/13 6:27Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5379
NC, USA

 Re:

I am an ancient universe (billions of years old) creationist (as taught by Hugh Ross).

I like talking about this issue because I think it is interesting, but when it comes down to it I don't really care one way or the other. God can do whatever He wants. He certainly could have and may have created the universe in 6 literal days. He also could have started things off with a bang and Higgs Bosun's particles.

I don't think this issue has anything to do with salvation, etc as Ken Ham would say. Nor should believing a certain way have anyhthing to do with a person being qualified as a pastor or elder in a church.

It just seems to me that the earth/universe HAS to be older than 10-15 thousand years old, as the YEC's would state. I don't think YEC's are dumb for holding this position because they have their supports and I know why they say this.

Everest wrote: "are simply trying to rectify their Biblical beliefs with what Atheistic science demands that they believe."

THis might be a tad unfair; 1st, not all scientists who hold to an ancient universe theory are atheists, and 2nd not all atheist scientist who hold this theory do it BECAUSE they are atheists. They honestly believe this is what the scientific evidence demonstrates.

Now I know that mainstream scientists can and have been proved wrong, and will be proved wrong again. But billions and billions and billions of years wrong? I suppose it is possible that they are this wrong, but I really doubt it.

I know there is a fear among Christians that if we accept the idea of a billions of year old Earth that this opens the door for macroevolution. Nothing could be further from the truth--- there still is not NEARLY enough time for the Darwinian theory to work. Probably not even if the universe is a trillion years old.

Anyways, like I said I enjoy this topic because I find it interesting to discuss... I have read tons of stuff on both sides of the issue and in this case I think mainstream science has it right.. I believe God created the universe with a Big Bang ("bang" it was there) and he even created Higgs-Bosons to help it along.


_________________
Todd

 2012/7/13 7:25Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7470
Mississippi

 Re:

When I attended Bible School back in the 1960s our instructor in Genesis believed in the gap theory and taught it to us, making us "gappers". His greatest motivator was on how does one account for the age of the fossils scientists say are millions or billions of years old.

As time went on, I became aware of how quickly things can fossilize given the right conditions. How is it that there are found in coal modern items? Do a google search and what you find will be nothing short of amazing.

Given this empirical evidence, I have since then discarded the gap theory - it is just that, a theory.

Still, this question remains: when did Lucifer fall? Since the WORD is not clear on it, God must not have deemed it essential for our well-being to know, hence the shortage of info on this act.

Ann, I still appreciate you, even if we disagree on this issue...:-)

God bless.


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Sandra Miller

 2012/7/13 9:02Profile









 Re:

A novelty subject since there is no concrete evidence to prove it, it's all speculation and conjecture.

Do I believe that such a theory exists, it's possible.

"In the Beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth."

Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

The possibility in the gap theory is this "Darkness" that was there.

I am pointing that out because of verses 3 and 4

Genesis 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Genesis 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

It doesn't say that God said, "let there be darkness and there was darkness".

Darkness had to have come from somewhere, it just didn't appear out of nowhere, it had to be created or it was the result of disobedience perhaps (all conjecture). Perhaps this Darkness which was upon the face of the deep was a spiritual darkness.

The reason why I say that is because the light that was created in verse 3 is not the same light that was created when God created the Sun. That light that lights the daytime was created on day 4.

There is something to note though. The words Day and Night are capitalized in verse 5, whereas the words 'day' and 'night' are not in verses 16&18.

Another thing to note is, during the creation up until the 4 day when the Sun was created to give light to the earth, what was the 'evening and morning' on the first few days in creation?

I think God was establishing the eternal invisible spiritual foundations of the earth first before creating the visible things which we see and know.

The gap theory has to extend from verse 2 to day 4 until the Sun was created.

There is a strong application of the creation leading up to Jesus Christ.

Matthew 4:16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.

Genesis 1:4 .... and God divided the light from the darkness.

Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

I think that these names Day and Night are actual persons. Day is Christ and all that pertains to Light, and the Night is all that is of Satan.

 2012/7/13 9:57









 Re:

Sure glad I said this in my first post :)

"but I also take his attitude that it Really doesn't matter - because it's been a controversy from the beginning of time. Half of the long-dead commentators believed the gap and half didn't. Plenty still on both sides."

 2012/7/13 10:13
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2000
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
But than I would ask, Had not Lucifer sinned before Adam??
It gets me to thinking, Thanks
[quote/]

I have read all of Dake's reasoning and scriptures supporting the pre-Adamite civilization theory as well as the gap theory. It seems to me a lot of scripture is handled a bit loosely and perhaps even out of context. From the statement
"gap fact" it seems perhaps you have read Michael Pearl's book on the issue. I have been blessed by a lot of his teaching, but I do not agree with him on this one. I do not see a pre-Adamite civilization nor do I see a gap.

To answer the quote above, who says that Lucifer sinned before he tempted Adam and Eve? Someone else can weigh in with scriptures if I am missing something, but the idea that Lucifer sinned before the garden is primarily borne out by interpreting a particular statement in the book of Revelation. It seems to me from Isaiah and Ezekiel (there is another thread going about these passages) that Lucifer was in the garden of Eden as the anointed cherub that covereth in a pre-sin state. It seems to me that he was jealous of man's authority and dominion and decided that he would have his own authority and that he would get it by taking it from man. I believe his sin was in the garden rather than at some indeterminate time before the garden.

As to the age of the fossils, that is a construct of a fallen man who relies on circular reasoning (the date determines the strata which in turn is used to confirm the date)and dating methods that are wildly variable (e.g. potassium argon dating, carbon dating, etc.)


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Travis

 2012/7/13 12:27Profile
kjcword
Member



Joined: 2012/4/2
Posts: 27


 Re:

Romans 5:12 says that sin entered the world after adam, and death followed sin. Satan's sin happened in heaven, not earth. Remember Jesus said that He watched satan fall like lightning. I think Ken Ham has some great research on the 6 day creation. I am firmly in the 6 day camp. If God said 6 days, I believe it. So, I believe the earth is roughly 6,000 years old.

 2012/7/13 12:35Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3394
East TN (for now)

 Re: TMK

Quote:
by TMK
I am an ancient universe (billions of years old) creationist (as taught by Hugh Ross).


Me too.

God bless,
Lisa


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Lisa

 2012/7/13 13:58Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5379
NC, USA

 Re:

A lot sure happened on Day 6. Poor Adam must have been exhausted.

I thought the origin of the Gap theory was that Gen 1:2 can be translated "and the earth BECAME formless and void" instead of "was formless and void."

Anyways it will be great to learn all about this someday.

I am hoping that some day we will be able to go back and "review" things in the ancient past first hand. Perhaps the Lord will allow us to do that.


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Todd

 2012/7/13 14:28Profile





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