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roadsign
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 Re:

Quote:
The other thing regarding the "cup of salvation" is the fact that Jesus does not force-feed us. We have to receive His cup of salvation and then bring it to our "mouth" and drink deeply of it. The taking and receiving of what God gives is our responsibility. The giving is His.



Following the context of this thread, how does fear (as discussed above) affect “taking and receiving” from God?

Diane


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Diane

 2012/8/3 17:27Profile
roadsign
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 Re:

Paul's Ephesians 3 prayer is one way to address Pilgrim's point about our role vs God's role. I post the text here. Perhaps you would like to ponder over these words and consider how Paul applies those distinctions in the way he writes and prays:

Ex: Eph. 3:11-21
“ ... according to his eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord. In him and through faith in him we may approach God with freedom and confidence. I ask you, therefore, not to be discouraged because of my sufferings for you, which are your glory.

For this reason I kneel before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name. I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the Lord’s holy people, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge —that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.
Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.”


See also Eph. 1:15-23


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Diane

 2012/8/3 18:41Profile
roadsign
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 Re: Something far bigger than any giant we may fear

From Eph. 3, Paul’s prayer:

“Christ may dwell in your hearts”
“his Spirit in your inner being”
“rooted and established in love”
“power that is at work within us,”
filled to the measure of all the fullness of God

With the infinite abundance that the Father has made available through his own Son, by his Spirit abiding within – why do we Christians have a tendency to dwell in the desert – clinging anxiously to the few withering blades of grass we find? But they are never enough to preserve us through hazards and trials that befall us. They're not enough to equip us for our high calling: to love the unlovely. They're not enough to convince the lost of what we’ve found. And they're not enough to conquer the raveging giant within: fear.

This spiritual dirth really is a problem, isn’t it! That’s why we’ve had the Abundant Life Conferences, Deeper Life retreats, and so forth. There’s no end of books and seminars on the subject.

Hardened people don’t have this problem. So why must the more spiritually-inclined people strive so anxiously for God’s gifts – as if access to it is nearly elusive. You’d think, by the way we handle these matters, that there is a stricture in the Narrow Path - as if God requires that we go through some rigorous moral/ascetic gymnastics in order to pass through.

Yet in fact, we already have it all– fully available to us. Pilgrim earlier pointed out that God has done his part, but we must do our part: RECEIVE. That’s exactly where we get ourselves into a quagmire. When God’s promises seem elusive we get ourselves into an anxious knot over what we should be DOING – how to receive. What must I do better? How can I get it? We strive endlessly, day after day, assuming that we haven’t tried enough to receive. We are hard on each other, chastising each other for lack of faith. Over and over we tell each other: Jesus is all you need! God alone! Just have faith. Then we are left wondering, How can I muster up more faith? It’s a discouraging existence. It’s a heavy load on our back, and we put it on each other. Victory seems so far away – on the top of a high mountain somewhere in the distance.

This is not merely a “sign of the times” – proof of how bad Christianity has become lately. It has been a struggle over the centuries. The greatest saints we know have endured this struggle – John Bunyan, AB Simpson, Ironside, Hudson Taylor, and countless we’ll never know about. I emphasize this because I think we need to respect this as a genuine struggle among caring, conscientious people – wise people. This is no place for simplistic answers and little quotes. It is an inner journey. The apostle Paul seemed to realize that. And that’s why he prayed as he did for the believers. You see Paul’s concern for what happens within their hearts (minds).

Notice in the following scriptures how Paul prays for the inner being. Notice especially the theological foundation of his prayer – what GOD does. (a point for those who smuggly think they can shun "theology".)

Eph. 1:11-23 THESE ARE BREATH TAKING WORDS!!

11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

15 For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all God’s people, 16 I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. 17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. 18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people, 19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength 20 he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

Question: How does this passage affect you?


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Diane

 2012/8/4 7:25Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
How does this passage affect you?


I am convicted as I meditate on these scriptures. They challenge me to view earthy troubles (the empty half) in light of far grander matters (the full half). Of course it's not half and half. That is not the true proportion. Still, wouldn’t you agree that a faith-based perportion will look insurmountably different than a fear-driven perportion - and that is evident in our prayers?

May our prayer life become like Paul's - rooted and established in love through faith.
Diane


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Diane

 2012/8/4 14:31Profile
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 Re: Faith among the Thessalonian Christians

Fear holds our minds hostage. It sabotages our calling. Faith is the one weapon that conquers this ravaging giant. The apostle Paul understood the value of faith and he took great pains to commend the Thessalonians Christians for their faith. Do take some time to reflect on these verses. How could Paul tell that their trust in God was genuine? What were his own responses concerning their faith?

From First Thessalonians:


“We remember before our God and Father your work produced by FAITH, your labor prompted by love, and your endurance inspired by hope in our Lord Jesus Christ.” 1:3

“The Lord’s message rang out from you not only in Macedonia and Achaia—your FAITH in God has become known everywhere. 1:8

“We sent Timothy, who is our brother and co-worker in God’s service in spreading the gospel of Christ, to strengthen and encourage you in your FAITH …” 3:2

“For this reason, when I could stand it no longer, I sent to find out about your FAITH. I was afraid that in some way the tempter had tempted you and that our labors might have been in vain.” 3:5

“But Timothy has just now come to us from you and has brought good news about your FAITH and love.” 3:6

“Therefore, brothers and sisters, in all our distress and persecution we were encouraged about you because of your FAITH.” 3:7

“Night and day we pray most earnestly that we may see you again and supply what is lacking in your FAITH.” 3:10
“… let us be sober, putting on FAITH and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet and the hope of salvation as a helmet.” 5:8

From Second Thessalonians:

“We ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters, and rightly so, because your FAITH is growing more and more, and the love all of you have for one another is increasing.” 1:3

“Therefore, among God’s churches we boast about your perseverance and FAITH in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring.” 1:4

“With this in mind, we constantly pray for you, that our God may make you worthy of his calling, and that by his power he may bring to fruition your every desire for goodness and your every deed prompted by FAITH.” 1:11


DO YOU THINK PAUL GOT A POINT ACROSS?

Why not, like Paul, make it a goal to encourage fellow believers whenever you see evidence of genuine trust in God! And in turn, allow yourself to be encouraged.


Diane


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Diane

 2012/8/5 14:06Profile
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 Re:

It is significant that Paul was able to recognize the outworking of faith in the Thessalonians believers. He commended them for it. For what? For their FAITH! Paul wasn’t merely giving them a pat on the back for doing a good job. Paul was not commending works in themselves, and certainly not works driven by desires to EARN God’s or man’s approval, to absolve guilt, or merely to feel good about oneself. Paul could recognize the presence of faith by the quality of the works.

These works flowed out of trustful faith in God’s trustworthiness. In other words, the believers trusted God to be true to his promises. By faith they had entered the “Promised Land” of the New Covenant. That faith inspired them to reach deeply into the well of God’s promises, gifts and enablements through his Spirit. In him they received the empowerment to love – as God would have them love. Without faith it is impossible to obey the one supreme commandment, the one which summarizes all others. That is because faith puts you in the very presence of God – where alone you know God’s love, God’s purposes, and God’s destiny. And it will be apparent in your habits and choices.

When faith is weak, fear will have some measure of control over the way you treat others. Do you agree? Without faith, the “giants”– such as the insults, the rejections, etc - have power to hold us back in our “safety zones”. We are not convinced that God will come through for us.

Paul knew that faith alone would perserve the church through the centuries - through all the testings from within and without.

Faith is a treasure, more precious than gold. Yet like gold, it is a rare quality among the people of God. Why - we may barely have our big toe in the Promised Land.

On the other hand, genuine faith knows no denominational boundaries or theological camps. Do you agree?

Diane


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Diane

 2012/8/7 13:55Profile
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 Re:

Forgive me if I am repeating something that has already been said. I have been busy and logged on to read briefly and this thread caught my eye. I have read some of what has been said, but not all.

I have been teaching a Bible study that is, right now, centered around the importance of the word of God in our lives. Tonight we will dive into the parable of the sower. Much of what we have been learning, and some of what I will talk about tonight, has to do with the inextricable union of the word of God and faith.

Paul (I am assuming it is him) has much to say in Hebrews 3 and 4 about unbelief. Here are a few verses I pulled out.

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God

Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
Heb 3:19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

I am appalled so often at how little emphasis most modern American Christians place on the word of God. The word of God is the bedrock of our faith (I speak not of the "christian faith", but of our faith in believing God.) Yet we are so immersed in this world. Most of us watch hours of television, spend hours surfing the net, spend hours playing video games, spend hours reading magazines and books, spend hours and many dollars at the movies, have facial recognition of movies stars, television personalities, and music icons, can usually tell what movies so and so starred in, know the statistics of athletic teams and team members, can spend hours discussing political figures and their platforms, and the list can go on. Yet most of us could not name all of the Ten Commandments or quote more than half a dozen well known scriptures. Most of us have difficulty remembering which chapter or even which book contains key teachings and truths. And then we wonder why we struggle with unbelief and why our faith seem so weak. Then we cry out to God to give us more faith.

This world and its system is anti-Christ and will charge you to capacity with unbelief. If what this world feeds us is not directly attacking or opposing the word of God it is keeping us so full of trivialities that we have little or not time to fill ourselves with that which combats unbelief and builds our faith.

Now, I am not saying that we should take a sledgehammer to every electronic device we own and live in a commune or a monastery. But we do need to be aware of what we do to ourselves and make, in most cases, some radical changes in our lifestyles. We must saturate our minds with the word of God. It must become living reality to us. It must be the thing that we meditate day and night. For it is through the word of God that our faith grows and our unbelief shrinks.

A side note. Ultimately the sins of every man and woman who has ever lived has been forgiven. The price has been paid. The real issue that sends men to hell is their rejection of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. It is their failure to receive by faith that thing that was so freely offered them. They do not believe and choose to remain in their sins. It is, ultimately, their unbelief is it not?



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Travis

 2012/8/7 18:06Profile
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 Re:

Hi Diane,
Forgive me also as I only briefly read some of the later posts. But it seems to me about faith and how we get more faith and how we struggle with earthly things.

Well, I was seeing this youtube video : Pray and Be alone with God by Paul Washer and I think it will answer your question. Not sure whether Sermonindex has it but I do feel its a very good video that will bless you.


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geraldine

 2012/8/7 20:52Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
We must saturate our minds with the word of God. It must become living reality to us. It must be the thing that we meditate day and night. For it is through the word of God that our faith grows and our unbelief shrinks.



Yes, building one’s faith is the intended outcome of regular Bible reading. Yet, it is possible to read the word through the lens of unbelief, and be immune to its faith building capacity. It is quite possible that fear rather than trust becomes the motivation. And then the primary aim for obedience is to avoid God’s punishment. When scripoture is not grasped through the eyes of faith, the word tends to become a behaviour modification program. The Bible gets combed for all the rules and laws with little value seen in faith.

Luther was a biblical scholar. Yet for him every phrase in it the bible shouted with divine wrath, and it made him miserable. After his experience with divine grace, that all changed. Then every word in scripture shone with promise. That is because Luther came to see scripture through the eyes of faith rather than fear. (and I’m not referring to the fear of God in the trusting sense, but in the distrusting sense (the latter is driven by a distorted view of God).

Travis, How many of the resistant unbelievers you outline might have an accurate understanding of the blessings of the New Covenant promises? I ask because virtually anyone I have ever met who has expressed a rejection of God can see no reason to trust God – and they base that on what they have seen in the church. We can easily call that an excuse. But surely, if professing Christians cannot demonstrate the insurmountable, awesome benefits of living by faith in God and his many promises, why should unbelievers believe?

Here’s a challenge: Why not write a post about the divine promises inherent in living by faith – and make it at least as long as your comments about NOT believing.


Diane


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Diane

 2012/8/7 20:57Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
I was seeing this youtube video : Pray and Be alone with God by Paul Washer and I think it will answer your question.


Thank you. I think I have seen pretty well all of the Youtube clips by Paul Washer, so I may have heard the message you refer to. For the sake of discussion, can you explain which question you refer to and how you see Washer touching on it.

By the way, you may wish to browse through this thread to see how the material has been developing to this point. I'm curious to consider how Paul Washer's teaching integrates with all this - (edit) this theme of faith conquoring the mighty giant of fear. What do you think?

Diane


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Diane

 2012/8/7 21:04Profile





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