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proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 systematicaly butchered the Bible

We have systematicaly butchered the Bible. We put our Faith in modern Scholars (Scribes) rather than in Gods ability to personly speak to us through The Scriptures.
This is nothing new, Jesus Pointed this fact out many times to the Jews.

 2012/7/11 23:22Profile
IssacharSon
Member



Joined: 2012/7/12
Posts: 185
Southeast USA

 Dietrich Bonhoeffer

Wow!

What a great topic.

I wish we could start on online book study (subject to the scripture, of course) on Bonhoeffer's "Cost of Discipleship".

This is a life-changing book. He was martyred at the end of WWII for his work with the German Resistance groups against Hitler. He was jailed and hanged on suspicions of being a member of the "Flossenburg Gang" who allegedly conspired to assassinate Hitler.

He wrote a terrific book on Discipleship.

How about Book Club Thread? I'm game.

Love-in-Christ,

KP

 2012/7/14 14:45Profile
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re: Bill Gothard

Dietrich always reminds me about the verse, "If you live by the sword you will die by the sword". I think it was a mistake for him to get involved with a group to assasinate Hitler. God protected him from the condemnation of actually carrying out that vengeful deed. "Do not repay evil with evil, but give place to wrath". Romans 12.

Yes, there are many Discipleship "systems" today and sadly, many incorporate the OT Law within their "Christian" system.

So, I guess you could say the Cost of Discipleship to some is Legalism and Oppression.

Well, that is one type of Cost but it is Discipleship to man and not God.

Bill Gothard has created an incredible system that incorporates the OT Law in his discipleship system and results in much legalism. I would love to talk about his system of theology and how he twists sciptures giving examples from his course materials but he is much beloved by SI and they would take it personally.

Critiquing his theological system has as far as I know, is still off limits on SI. But, there are plenty of links around the web, especially from former Gothardites where people can get the information they are looking for to help themselves.

Pilgrim

 2012/7/14 14:58Profile
IssacharSon
Member



Joined: 2012/7/12
Posts: 185
Southeast USA

 Re: But he was innocent

Bonhoeffer was innocent.

Don't most martyrs die with the false accusations of their enemies following them?

C'mon! Bonhoeffer was in no ways involved in an assassination plot. He sympathized with the Jews in the midst of and at the expense of his own national pride and identity. He was a German opposing the Nazis for the sake of the Jews.

He lived by no sword.

Wow, the lies of the enemy do sometimes prosper!

Love-in-Christ,

KP

 2012/7/14 15:04Profile
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

Whoa now, brother. Read my post on your book club. I would like to find out what it was all about.

Pilgrim

 2012/7/14 15:06Profile
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re: Regarding Bill Gothard's Discipleship System

You know, unless you ask you never will know. So, let me ask SI right now.

Would SI mind if I reviewed Bill Gothard's materials (what he has in print, publicly) with other discerning Saints on SI?

He has a theological discipleship system that he teaches and would it be alright with SI if his system were discussed. Nothing personal about Bill Gothard would be discussed.

Thank you,
Pilgrim

 2012/7/14 15:10Profile
IssacharSon
Member



Joined: 2012/7/12
Posts: 185
Southeast USA

 Re: A comparative Book Study: Gothard and Bonhoeffer

I feel in no ways oppressed by NOT BOnhoeffer's but Jesus' "system of discipleship" which the Lord describes in Matthew 5 to his own Disciples.

My earhtly goal is to live as a disciple of Christ Jesus.
And it is not "systems of discipeship" which are oppressive, it is the world's response to discipleship which is guaranteed to strike at the system of discipleship.

What do you say?

Have you actually read "Cost of Discipleship"?

If so, would you be willing to read it again alongside Matthew 5 and I will read this "Gothard" if you can recommend a book. It would be interesting to see how he compares to Matthew 5.

Love-in-Christ,

KP

 2012/7/14 15:11Profile
IssacharSon
Member



Joined: 2012/7/12
Posts: 185
Southeast USA

 I'll join the discussion

Hey!

I've never heard of Gothard, so you've got an unbiased response waiting in the wings, once you direct me to his studies and I acquire them.

But, can we also look at Bonhoeffer's Matthew 5 discipleship?

Love-in-Christ

KP

 2012/7/14 15:14Profile
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re: I'll join the discussion

Ok, first of all, I can be unbiased, too. I would like to read Bonhoeffer's Matthew 5 discipleship, for sure.

I think this is a very good read and also think that Bonhoeffer is one of the most courageous brethren that ever lived.

http://www.dartmouthapologia.org/articles/show/123

I am curious what caused his arrest and later execution. You are saying that there is no truth to the matter that he was part of a resistance movement to assasinate Hitler, and that all articles and essays on this are just lies. Ok, I accept that and would like to now look into why this disinformation about him has proliferated.

Blessings,
Pilgrim

 2012/7/14 15:26Profile
IssacharSon
Member



Joined: 2012/7/12
Posts: 185
Southeast USA

 Why lies still follow Bonhoeffer's death

"I am curious what caused his arrest and later execution. You are saying that there is no truth to the matter that he was part of a resistance movement to assasinate Hitler, and that all articles and essays on this are just lies. Ok, I accept that and would like to now look into why this disinformation about him has proliferated."

For the same reason the Emperor Nero's lies about the Christians setting Rome on fire has survived.

 2012/7/14 16:47Profile





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