My friend wrote this to me about the Ravenhill quotes. First off, saying that t.v. Christianity doesnt preach salvation is sad, but true. I dont know if we could say that NO ONE is preaching salvation. Have you ever seen Adrian Rogers or James Kennedy on television? Forgiveness is not all that there is to salvation, but it is a pretty major significant part of it. I would say that a person living in adultery that God does love them, but he is grieved by their sin. Its a natural temptation to say, Well if God loves me unconditionally, no matter what I do, Ill just sin as much as I like. But in Romans 6, Paul said, God forbid! to that reasoning, saying that if were dead to sin, how can we live in it any longer? Just because Gods love and grace is abused, we cant stop preaching it.
I would say that God DOES love people, not because we are lovable, but because he IS love. Yes, God is angry with the wicked everyday. But, to me, the reason he is angry at them, the reason their sin grieves them, is because he loves them. If God simply didnt care about people, including wicked people, then he wouldnt care how they behaved. If a father didnt love his son, he wouldnt care how his son lived. But his father will rebuke and discipline his son for wrongdoing if he loves him. In the same way, Gods wrath is sparked by humans sin, because God loves humans, they are made in his image, and he desires better for them than the wages of sin. To say, God loves you, but hates your sin, is not bunken but the very heart of the Gospel. If God hated us, what hope would we have? God demonstrates his LOVE for us in this: while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. While we were sinners, doing things God hates, he showed how much he loved us, by sending Christ.
This is the same way that we are to love: hating sin, but loving people in spite of their sin. We love ourselves, no matter how sinful we act. We are called to love others the same way. Not approving of others sin any more than we would approve of our own sin, but loving nonetheless. Christ told us to love our enemies? What if our enemies are wicked? Are we still supposed to love them? Of course we are. But how can God require us to love our wicked enemies if he doesnt love our wicked enemies? Is God asking us to do something hes not willing to do himself? Yes, people will be judged for their sin. But again, I would say the reason God will judge peoples sin, is because he loves them. Hes not going to judge cats and dogs and monkeys for their misdeeds, but he will judge humans, because we are made in his image, and he loves us.
Think about this: God loves us so much that our actions actually can grieve God. Isnt that profound? Think of how ridiculous it would be if you or I were to grieve and weep over something a cockroach did? We dont care how cockroaches behave, because they are so small and insignificant and mean nothing to us. But even though we are small and insignificant, God has placed significance upon us by creating us in his image, and therefore he actually cares about our lives.
In response to your second quote, I would just say that in sermons, we need to hear both love and judgment, law and grace, heaven and hell, to be told that were fearfully and wonderfully made in Gods image and that were rebels. Its not either/or. We need both. Here is a quote from A.W. Tozer that can surmise everything:
The result of what GOD saw among men was grief to Gods own heart
and only love can grieve. You cannot grieve unless you love. God loved the man whom He had made and the degenerate and corrupt race that had descended from Him. Gods love caused Him to grieve, and it filled Him with anxious care.
| 2005/2/16 14:16||Profile|
One man sows another waters, it is God that gives the increase. I have read this thread and find that God works in each man or woman according to His wisdom. Each person was dead in his or her sin, each one God calls once, twice, three times in the hope of keeping him or her from going down into the Pit. One man is preached hell, another love.
Sister Chanin said that once she was lukewarm. And what does Jesus have to save about being lukewarm?
Rev. 3:16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.
It is a blessed moment when God brings each of us into His presences. Sometimes it is through visions and dreams. Sometimes God causes men to cry out.
19 Man is also chastened with pain on his bed,
And with strong pain in many of his bones,
20 So that his life abhors bread,
And his soul succulent food.
21 His flesh wastes away from sight,
And his bones stick out which once were not seen.
22 Yes, his soul draws near the Pit,
And his life to the executioners.
The results are always the same. Those who obey are 'called out." Called out of what?
| 2005/2/16 15:29||Profile|
Corpus Christi, Texas, USA
| Re: 2 of the most intense Ravenhill quotes|
Thank you for the post of Leonard Ravenhill. Until finding him here and on the United4Truth.com web site, he was a name I heard but not a man I heard.
I downloaded the 2 hour video from the SI front page. I took 4 pages of notes and quotes over the first 4 times I listened to it. I agree with him that the church is starved for preaching and good spiritual discrimination.
I was deeply wounded at the behavior of the church toward him. He has been counseling folks for 13 years or more from and at his home. He said that if he has gained $500 from his effort he would be surprised.
I am surprised and shocked. Two hours on tape from the comfort of my home computer is worth all the generosity I can muster and he shall have it. I urge your readers who value his heart to do likewise.
I pray for Brother Ravenhill, though. It is a shock that he would be treated the way he has been, but I am not surprised. I hear angry love when I listen to him, like Jonah. He does not hold out hope to the church he speaks to, but disdain for our weakness and infirmity.
So I pray for him because his work in the church is not done and God must temper his spirit for the rest of mad, dark days for those in darkness.
I hope I don't hear much rebuke for my report here because I love and respect this persevering servant. And I love you for making his words available to someone like me.
| 2005/3/3 23:31||Profile|
Santa Clara, CA
| Re: Ravenhill|
Leonard Ravenhill died quite a few years ago and is now receiving his reward. Likewise we are being blessed by having such a vast part of his ministry preserved here.
Somewhat like yourself, I also actually had never heard of the man prior to being set down into this Utopian land of God fearing men. Now he is like a dear Grandfather to me...
Here is brief bio:
| 2005/3/3 23:44||Profile|
I have known about Ravenhill for a few years and have always been challenged by the quotes. Many people, particularly in England, have never heard of him or heard what he has to say. Something I would like to see created is a perpetual calendar with a quote per page. I could give them as presents to people and I would want one for myself! Every day we could flip over a new quote for the day and we would receive a challenge to ponder for the day. How could it not impact us? There are so many quotes we deem favourites, surely there are 366 that could be identified. It is not about a money making idea it is about getting these challenging words before a wider audience. I would hope someone would take the initiative.
| 2005/3/4 4:10||Profile|