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ZekeO
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Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re: which?

Quote:

Guess it depends, but it does seem to fit a pattern, breaking the proud and comforting the broken...



Something about a nail and a head and hitting it. I think you probably smashed it through the board. :-)

Very insightful


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2005/2/14 16:12Profile
DezCall
Member



Joined: 2004/7/9
Posts: 315
The Netherlands

 Re:

Dear friends,

I believe the Lord Jesus opened my eyes to something this day. I see the truth falling in the streets. I see false Gospels being preached. I merely hear a word of repentance, sin and hell...and so I was so busy with thinking about what kind of a radical message Jesus would preach (or some sort of that...), until I read the post of Mike on "The wound of compassion".

"Where is your compassion?", God seems to ask. Okay, we can't create compassion, but we will need it. If we haven't compassion, we don't understand how serious the matter actually is. It's not about preaching a message of repentance, it's not about displaying my bibleknowledge, it's not about preaching with fire, it's not about drawing huge crowds...it's about lost souls, who live in this world, without hope and without God (Ephesians 2:13). Because of the fact that people don't preach about hell anymore, doesn't mean I only need to preach about hell. Because of the fact that people only preach about the love of God today, doesn't mean that I shouldn't be preaching the TRUE love of God to them...

Jesus wasn't a softy. He preached directly and radically...but with a compassion that's incredible! As I said, we can't create compassion, we need to draw it from a close, intimate relationship with Jesus Christ. He's "compassion" in Person.

Let me quote something to you of this post made by brother Mike: [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=4561&forum=23&2]The Wound of Compassion[/url]

[i]Moody is quoted as having said that no man had the right to preach on Hell except he preach with tears in his eyes. 3 He loved them and pitied them, and so this love and pity, down through the years, has been a stream of Gospel sincerity; it has been the evidence of the indwelling Jesus who wept over Jerusalem and who went out to die.[/i]

[i]The wound of compassion is a faithful wound, my friend, and I ask that you seriously think about this with me and when you can, pray to God about it.[/i]

I posted a message from Tozer about this: [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=4572&post_id=31131&order=0&viewmode=thread&pid=0&forum=23#31131]Three Faithful Wounds[/url]. It's about the three wounds we need (contrition, compassion, longing after God). I hope it will bless our souls. May we grow more towards Christ, our sole object!

In Christ,

Paul


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Paul

 2005/2/14 16:18Profile









 Re: The hatred of God

Here are two awesome scriptures:

Psalm 5:5 "You hate all workers of iniquity."

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world".

The first scripture in Psalms refers to the individual. The second scripture in John refers to the world. Both these scriptures are true and make perfect sense when properly understood.

God has a holy anger, a righteous indignation towards the individual. Even a holy hatred as Psalm says. Everything the sinner does appalls God. From the sinners wickedness even to his righteous works which are filthy rages offends Him. Everything about the sinner is an abomination to God.

However God has a general love for the entire world. "While we were yet sinners Christ died for us". But there is a Fatherly love which he only has for his children. God does not have that same Fatherly love for the children of the devil.

Who are the children of the devil? Those who have not repented:

1Jo 3:8 - He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.

1Jo 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

So there is a condition to the Fatherly love of God. And that is loving Him. If a man loves a women, but she does not love him, then they are not in a loving relationship. Likewise the sinner and God are not in a loving relationship until he forsakes all sin and turns to Him.

"He that hath My commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me: and [b]he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father, [/b] and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him...If a man love Me, he will keep My words: and My Father will love him, and We will come unto him, and make Our abode with him." -- John 14:21-23

Jed Smock has a small article on this which I thought was pretty good: http://www.brojed.org/godslove.html

 2005/2/14 16:31
moreofHim
Member



Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


 Re: The hatred of God

Quote:
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Something about a nail and a head and hitting it. I think you probably smashed it through the board
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amen!

I have to remember that my calling and my passion is to see professing "christians" to repent. When I see people who call themselves christians (and only God knows if their hearts are contrite and pure) calling broken and abused people to repent and telling them that God hates them the way they are- hmmmmmmm , something seems wrong.

Obviously my gift is not in evangelism. mine is in discernment and bringing the reality of Christ to "Christians".

Though I do believe in spreading the gospel by all means, I tend to do it more with my life and by showing them the love of God through me and showing them how God has had mercy on me who was a disgusting sinner.

I have to be realistic here and say that i can't see much past calling christians to repentance. That's where my zeal is, my Godly anger you might say.

The christian community is so filled with filth and sin, and these are supposed to be "His" people.

Just like the religious of Jesus' day. It reminds me of the same!!!

Jesus used very strong words with them. He was obviously very upset with them. Those who thought they were religious and doing what was right.

Yet to those who were broken and indeed sinners (prostitutes, etc...) He had compassion on them.

When He dealt with people one on one, I see His compassion.

Yes, even when he taught that people who sin are of the devil, he did not scream it at them. He stated it and I believe it showed them their nature.

There are many "christians" who also do these same sins- and are we to say to them You are of the devil also?

Where do you draw the line?

In Him, Chanin


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Chanin

 2005/2/14 16:38Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world".

The first scripture in Psalms refers to the individual. The second scripture in John refers to the world.



Individuals are part of the whole.

Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

The only aspect of God's love that is conditional (contrary to the Jed Smock article) is intimacy. It is conditioned upon the person giving themselves unto the Lord. Interestingly enough, Smock used an illustration (of a boy chasing a girl) that shows that the only way to intimacy is going to be through the willing participation of both parties.

God demonstrated His love though- for each and every single one of us- that Christ died for each and every one of us. This is that "agape" love that the Bible speaks of, that is unconditional. Christ died unconditionally for us, but just because Christ died for each of us, doesn't promise us salvation.


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Jimmy H

 2005/2/14 16:51Profile









 Re:

This will most likely be my last post on this subject only not to turn these forums into a place of debates because it has the potential of heading there.. Debates are great, when done at the right time and place. However I am more then willing to email back and forth with anyone who has questions and concerns.

This is from my article "The Anger of the Lord":

We seem to have it all wrong today! What can the current church do with a scripture like Ps 5:5 that says “God hates all workers of iniquity” considering modern messages? We say “God hates sin but loves the sinner.” So what do you do with Ps 5:5? It certainly throws a wrench into our theological gears. Leonard Ravenhill said in an interview right before he died “the menace of many of our meetings is; we are trying to get people saved who don’t know their lost. ‘Come forward. The Lord loves you. The Lord loves you.’ The Lord hates you! Instead of a bumper stick ‘God loves you’, ‘God is angry with the wicked everyday’ (Ps 7:11) or ‘The wicked shall be turned into hell.’ (Ps 9:17)” That is what a man of God said after roughly 70 years of being in the ministry. No one can deny his experience, so there are some important truths to learn from that quote.

I only wish that I could begin to explain the mysteries of God, but I cannot adequately do so. As large ships need large rivers to sail through and can not move in small rivers, the fullness of the truth of God can not be fully comprehended by our shallow minds. Let me appeal to men greater then I to help us understand. In C. H Spurgeon’s “A Treasury of David” he has a quote from William Gurnall for Ps 5:5. William Gurnall (author of Christian in Complete Armor) wrote this, “Thou hatest all workers of iniquity.’ For what God thinks of sin, see Deut vii. 22; Prov. vi.16; Rev. ii. 6,15; where he expresseth his detestation and hatred of it, from which hatred proceeds all those direful plagues and judgments thundered from the fiery mouth of his most holy law against it; nay, not only the work, but worker also of iniquity becomes the object of his hatred.”

Spurgeon also put a quote from David Clarkson, B.D. 1621-1686, in his commentaries who said, “Those whom the Lord hates must perish. But he hates impenitent sinners, “Thou hatest all workers of iniquity.” Now, who are so properly workers of iniquity as those who are so eager at it that they will not leave this work, though they be in danger to perish for it? Christ puts it out of doubt. The workers of iniquity must perish. Luke xiii. 27. Those whom the Lord will tear in his wrath must perish with a witness; but those whom he hates, he tears &c. Job xvi. 8. What more due to such impenitent sinners than hatred! What more proper than wrath, since they treasure up wrath? Rom ii. Will he entertain those in the bosom of love whom his soul hates? No; destruction is their portion. Prov. Xxi. 15. If all the curses of the law, all the threatening of the gospel, all the judgments in earth or in hell, will be the ruin of him, he must perish. If the Lord’s arm be strong enough to wound him dead, he must die. Psalms lxviii. 21…… Avoid all that Christ hates. If you love, approve, entertain that which is hateful to Christ, how can he love you? What is that which Christ hates? The psalmist (Psalm xlv. 7) tells us, making it one of Christ’s attributes, to hate wickedness…. as Christ hates iniquity, so the ‘workers of iniquity." You must not love them, so as to be intimate with them, delight in the company of evil doers, openly profane, scorners of godliness, obstructers of the power of it. 2 Cor. vi. 14-18. If you love so near relations to wicked men, Christ will have no relation to you. If you would have communion with Christ in sweet acts of love, you must have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, or those that act them.”

Sin and sinners are both opposed to the Lord. God will not only cast sin into the fires of hell, but He Himself will cast sinners into the fires of hell. The Law is opposed to criminals who commit crimes, and are not just opposed to the crimes themselves. Rev. 21:8 says “But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” It does not say that “cowardice, murders, fornication, adultery, idolatry, and lies will be tossed into the lake of fire”, but cowards, murderers, fornicators, adulterers, idolaters! You must pull a plant up by the roots or it will grow back again. God goes for the root, not just the branches. Sins are the branches that spring up from the heart of the sinner. If you are outside of Christ, you are in desperate need of a heart transplant because the heart you have now is flooded with the waters of iniquity. It’s too sick to give you life.

 2005/2/14 17:02
moreofHim
Member



Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


 Re:

I also do not want to debate but I have to say when was the last time that we really looked in the mirror? That we really asked God to shine a light on "our own hearts"- those of us who profess to follow Christ?

We say that adulterers and murders, etc.... will be tossed in the lake of fire- but jesus said if you look on a woman with lust that you are the same as an adulterer. That if you have hateful feelings toward your brother, that you are the same as a murderer.

Do you not sin? Are you not a sinner? is every single area of your life completely surrendered to the Lord? I mean everything? Does God hate your sin less than someone else out there on the street?

Who of us is willing to look in the mirror? Who of us is willing to lay his heart out on the table for all the world to see first before we call others to repentance.

In love ( and i do mean that with all that is in me), Chanin


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Chanin

 2005/2/14 17:14Profile
moreofHim
Member



Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


 Re:

The anger of the Lord that He has shown me, was at His own people. I see it time and time again. In Jeremiah and Hosea and Isaiah, and even in jesus' day (the religious). He is most angry at his own people who claim to be His but do not follow him with their lives.

Sorry, just had to add that. :-)

each of us have their own areas to serve in i suppose.

in His love, Chanin


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Chanin

 2005/2/14 17:18Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:
When I came out of my lukewarmness , it wasn't because i thought God hated me.



Jud 1:22-23 And of some have compassion, making a difference: And others save with fear, pulling [them] out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

I understand this to mean that with some (the humble) show compassion. And with others (pridefull) save with fear (preach law). Its the same message just a different style. Jesus preached the same gospel to the women in adultry as he did to the rich young ruler, just differently. Ofcourse always preach with compassion but I dont belive you should always preach love and forgiveness untill they are ready for it (humble).


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Josh Parsley

 2005/2/14 19:09Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 what is a forum?

Quote:
This will most likely be my last post on this subject only not to turn these forums into a place of debates because it has the potential of heading there.. Debates are great, when done at the right time and place. However I am more then willing to email back and forth with anyone who has questions and concerns.


I may be mistaken but I thought I thought the whole purpose of a 'forum' was for debate/discussion. A forum is not a pulpit but a market place.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/2/15 3:49Profile





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