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So would the second blessing bring about "sinless perfection" as kraufrau defined it above? ...

""I use the term sinless perfection to mean no sin at all, either intentional or unintentional.""

 2012/7/10 17:38

Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK


Quote: The Baptism in the Holy Spirit is taught elsewhere.
If you look at the Church at Corinth - they had experienced the Baptism of The Holy Spirit but they were almost a complete mess of a Church that Paul needed to really work with.

I didn't have time to address the Corinthian church but can it be claimed that that the church had the Baptism just because the gifts of the Spirit. Peter in Acts clearly told us that when they had the Holy Spirit was his heart was cleansed.

Paul said to the Corinthians in chapter 12 let me show you a more excellent way. Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. Which would imply that they didn't have the baptism.

The Second work of the Spirit Col 3:12-14 Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering; bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do. But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection.

Quote: So would the second blessing bring about "sinless perfection" as kraufrau defined it above? ...

The scripture above defines the blessing, love is the bond of perfection.

Colin Murray

 2012/7/11 11:03Profile


Sorry Brother, just now finding this.

I didn't quite understand just this one line - "Peter in Acts clearly told us that when they had the Holy Spirit was his heart was cleansed."

Peter still stumbled over the Gentiles and Paul loved everyone there enough to call him out in front of all.

Peter was asked enough times, "Peter, do you love Me?"
Then he had that vision of the lowering sheet of unclean animals so that he'd go and preach to Gentiles --- yet when the big boys were gathered -- he shyed away from the Gentiles and Paul and others to sit with the strictly Jewish side.

Peter's "love" was surely low that day.
I don't believe it's a one time shot in the arm type walk. We're perfected as we surrender our minds, thoughts, wills to Him - completely dependent and submiting, minute by minute, until He Comes.

I very much agree that the First and Second Commandments are essential for the perfecting of the Saints and for salvation as well - and they always were.
Can't be saved and not love GOD and others.
Loving GOD and others will get us through - there's absolutely No Doubt About That.

Thanks, Colin.

 2012/7/12 1:23


I've had a nagging question to ask you or krautfrau - only for my own understanding - not to debate.

I wondered what you both felt about osas. I pray no one comes on to debate - I just don't know enough about 'the 2nd blessing' teaching to know the answer to this question.
To my limited knowledge on this - I'm not sure - but it seems there were/are two sides to the teaching - and one was Whitefield? and the others more Armenian?

I would like to just understand better and nothing more.
If you and krautfrau could help me understand the Armenian side of the 2nd blessing teaching - I'm not just casually curious - it has been a nagging question on my heart to ask in order to put things together in my understanding and try to reason out for myself - from the Armenian side, if the 2nd blessing perfects, then I wondered if it would not put one into the osas position or is it still possible to walk/fall away from Him?

Thank you, if you both could help educate me.

 2012/7/12 9:59

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