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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7463


John, this topic makes for long thoughts...this is what happens to me, sometimes, like now.

If one examines the fall of man which was precipitated by the appearance and subsequent conversation with Eve, one can easily see the same lies, same reasons given then as what are used to day:

1. "Yea, hath God said?" Questioning God's authority.

2. "Ye shall be as Gods knowing good and evil." You have the ability to discern what is good and what is evil - do not allow another to tell you what it is.

The reality is that God knew more then Adam or Eve did hence his prohibition against eating from the tree. So, we parents or church will work to teach our children to "not do" and "do this instead". It is to protect them from further harm. (Granted, obedience to parental authority will not result in one's salvation, but will make life easier when these rules are obeyed. They will protect you from dangers that are inherent to sin that the devil will later use to trip you up.)

In light of Adam and Eve's upbringing what excuse do they have for their disobedience? Did they have too much doctrine thrown at them? Did they have too much prohibitions imposed on them? Their upbringing was absolutely perfect, absolutely. God gave them only one rule of "Do not"; God would walk with them in the cool of the day. So what was their excuse? The devil appealed to them by appealing to their desire to be like God, knowing good and evil. Ahhhh. Sound familiar? "I know more and better then these old folks do..." Oh! really?

If one examines the dynamics of the devil's logic and Eve's acquiesce to it, one can see how the devil has not changed his tactics at all in the years since and man is just as gullible today as he was back then.

God bless.


Sandra Miller

 2012/7/7 9:42Profile

Joined: 2008/7/24
Posts: 613

 Re: When a person's heart dies from religious upbringing

[What do you folks think?


Pray for them and love them.


 2012/7/7 10:36Profile

 Thrown off my horse.

"True doctrine is living. It's not head knowledge. It's not acquiring knowledge and then repeating the same thing to others.

When we walk in Righteousness, His doctrine will follow us. I can't express it in the words that I would like to, the only word I can say is that it's alive." Approved.

I think you communicated something Approved that struck the heart of the issue. I think that the mainstay of the war on the church is expressed in your post; THE WAR AGAINST THE RELIGIOUS SPIRIT; and their Priest class that defends it. These are offended in everything that speaks of freedom, for they cannot control freedom.

It may appear in religious mothers and fathers, or siblings, and in the end, you will be hated if you do not submit. It is the one and same spirit that hated and murdered Jesus.

Jesus said something very interesting about this issue;

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."

I have seen children converted to this hateful religious idea, and many, many young men desiring the "ministry" and the pulpit. Today, they are filled with hate; they are separate, and through pride and ambition see themselves above and qualified; They have become twice so compared to those who fathered them.

This may happen in families too. Once bitten by this snake, it's hard to get well. The ideas of dogma, be it corporate, or individualized, tend to be cemented in the personality as a protective fortress, and the attack on anything that may deny it must be vigorous.

This always amazes me, when I see this uncovered. Pure venom arises, and it seems that those affected are entirely ignorant of it; it seems entirely right in their eyes to attack; it is the spirit of murder.

The only way out of this religious bondage is to be broken by the Holy Spirit, and deep repentance to God. This means you must desire Jesus more than your ambition and pride. I think that the children affected by this dark spirit will have an opportunity to see them selves as they are.

Probably no one in the Bible was more possessed of this spirit than Saul of Tarsus. He personified what religion is all about; "torture and kill 'em all!" By Sovereign Grace he was thrown to the ground, shocked and blinded...when He realized Who he hated through his ambition and zeal.

He then sought the lowest seat, not the highest; he became the ministry of the Holy Spirit, loving and guiding from the bottom, not the top. Are we willing to be just another brother or sister? and put on the towel to wash feet?

This happens in every soul who has been delivered from this spirit. They are broken and humbled and the scales come off their eyes. All must come here who really want Him.

Once the Lord spoke to me in a very clear tone; "Do you really want Me?" It is a lifetime word to me. Am I willing to lay down my ambition to be someone? receive the praises of men, or their commendations as justifying my ministry?...or are you willing to lay down your mother or your fathers teaching to find Him?

It must be so for us all.

A very deep and inspiring post Approved, and it ministered to me much. Thank you.

Ginnyrose: I enjoy your thoughts and insights. Thanks.

 2012/7/7 11:08

Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


Very interesting thread John! Excellent post Approved! Enjoyed both of your posts brothertom! Also some others!

Religion is deadly and very abusive to others who have a heart and mind of their own. I wouldn’t won’t to be involved in any group whom their leaders and members try and control others. There are groups who tell their people they must dress a certain way. They must conform to certain standards or they will be shunned. They teach their children to conform to all their convictions without even allowing the Holy Spirit to convict them in their own walk with God. They love to keep people in bondage. The bible teaches where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom. We are supposed to forbear with one another in Love. The letter kills but the Spirit gives life.

Sad to say, there are groups who are practicing witchcraft on their people by controlling them with fear and telling them that if they don’t conform to their teachings they will be shunned or even excommunicated. We should be leading people in the love of the Lord. God hates legalism as much as he hates sin, because both of them are deadly.

There are groups who strain at knats and swallow camels. They are more concerned with the outward appearance than the inner man. They are more concerned with controlling people than they are with believing that the Holy Spirit will teach, lead, and guide others into all truth. They try more at being the Holy Ghost toward others than in submitting to the Holy Spirit’s leading and timing in another person’s life.

It is almost like some are misinterpreting John 3:16 where he says “God so loved the world that he gave” to read like “God so hated sin”. It’s like God’s hatred for sin is greater than His love for people. If God’s hatred for sin was greater than his love for people then He would have never sent His Son to His sacrificial death on the cross. He would have never put up with all the past sins in any of us. We forget sometimes that we all have a past that would have put us in hell a long time ago, if it was not the grace and mercy of our Loving heavenly Father and Lord Jesus Christ.

Blessings to all…from brother rbanks

 2012/7/7 11:27Profile

Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2734
Phoenix, Arizona USA


One of the things it does for me is sharpen my critical thinking skills when it comes to religious ideology by dissecting what I read and separating what is probably of God and what is of man in the form of God.

It is not a question of whether this women's words is of God or not. She is simply telling part of her own story of her upbringing in a sect of Christianity that brought much pain to her life

Brother, help me to understand your point of view, I can't seem to reconcile these two statements of yours that I have quoted above.

This young women claims to be Christian and she is therefore expressing her religious ideology in her blog. So why not sharpen your critical thinking skills when it comes to her ideology?

In just a brief examination of her blog I see that she is currently engaging in sex outside of marriage and she also seems to endorse homosexual behavior(although not a lesbian herself). Therefore, this seems to be a woman who is in rebellion against God and not just some legalistic upbringing.

In case you're wondering, I'm not involved in the quiverfull/patriarcy movement, I'm just concerned that she is portrayed as the "victim" here and her writings are given a hearing when it appears that she is willingly outside the will of God.

Yes, we should pray for her, and for her parents for that matter, whether legalists or not, they must be hurting when they see their daughter in rebellion. How would I reach out to her? I think Ginnyrose put it best, and I quote, "I think I would just not respond UNLESS the HOLY SPIRIT would nudge me to do so otherwise you would be casting your pearls before swine."

In Christ,


Ron Halverson

 2012/7/7 13:18Profile

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