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Blayne
Member



Joined: 2012/5/27
Posts: 274


 Re: When a person's heart dies from religious upbringing

Hi! DEADn

Ummm, I don't think there is a single person alive who has escaped the inner death which accompanies "religious" ideas and doctrines. All you have to do is read some of the varying ideas expressed in these Forums to confirm that observation.
We have 50% percent of the people in here confessing to all sorts of ideas which are at odds with the other 50%.
Then we have 25% who seem to be more defensive than the others. A further 10% who seem to be more accusing than others.

As you've seen for yourself, it can be a complete ham sandwich of ideas in here.

The truth is:
There isn't anyone participating in this Discussion Forum who can honestly claim that they have the truth-an'-nothing-but-the-truth-so-bless-me-God. Including, ME!

That's why this is a Discussion Forum. We discuss and share any variety of thoughts concerning Scripture. But it's not that any one of us can declare that our view or opinion is the irrefutable all-encompassing truth.

For instance, today I read a comment where someone said something about how Christians can sometimes be more concerned about avoiding the penalty of sin instead of the eradication of sin. That idea immediately became a spiritual treasure for me. And, that's why I keep returning here to read the discussions.

We are all wandering around in the desert (so to speak); thirsty for genuine life which only the Word of God can give. Some temporarily stop and rest awhile in a denomination, some chase after every new and exciting evangelist, while others stumble into a nest of vipers.

Yet, God continues to speak to both them and us in this day and hour because He is determined that we should attain what His Word declares about us.

So, this lady hasn't any monopoly on truth and falsehood; none of us do. But she does have a wonderful testimony of escaping the viper den and I'm greatly encouraged and thankful for that.





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When a person's heart dies from religious upbringing
by DEADn on 2012/7/6 8:53:25
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 2012/7/6 20:40Profile
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1357
Lakeland FL

 Re:

Quote:

And so what this woman has written in her blog is of God? I briefly looked at it, it is filled with talk and images about sex.

It is not religious upbringing (even legalism) that kills hearts, it is the love of sin.



It is not a question of whether this women's words is of God or not. She is simply telling part of her own story of her upbringing in a sect of Christianity that brought much pain to her life.

Is sex not a part of our lives? From your post it almost seems as if sex should not be a part of any talk about God, I hope I am wrong on this. This girl brings this up as a result of the marriage bed and this thing called purity balls. Sex and gender play important roles in what she is discussing. I only posted what she posted about her background. There are others who post other things as well.

I have often wondered how many other Christian would have compassion on these folks vs. Giving them scriptures to read as if they don't already know them.

How would you reach out to people who have been dismayed with a religious system such as this? Would you be preachy? Would you just listen? Would you do something else?


_________________
John

 2012/7/6 21:38Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Ron's: And so what this woman has written in her blog is of God? I briefly looked at it, it is filled with talk and images about sex.

It is not religious upbringing (even legalism) that kills hearts, it is the love of sin.

In Christ,



I think this is true. When a person starts getting cold in their spirit all kinds of excuses start coming forward as for why they are in rebellion against God. The more they drift into sin, the more they will despise their Godly upbringing. No parent is perfect, but who can criticize parents that tried to raise their kids up right in this present evil world? I'm persuaded to believe that if we had a true revelation of God, the likes of which men like Isaiah experienced in Isaiah 6, we would not be quick to act like folk that try to live Holy before God are religious nuts and legalists. In fact, when we finally stand before God to give an account of our lives frowardness and high-handed talk will be driven far from us.

Understand that it is Satan that desires folk to forget about the eternality of our actions on earth. He would like to make all of us flippant smart alecs. The trouble with this is that many of us were not raised in church, but grew up in a diabolic environment. We know what real fear is as kids. We know what it is to tremble wondering from one minute to the next if we will live or die at the hands of sin crazed men. I would have given a kings ransome to have had a nights peace in a Christian home .


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2012/7/6 21:44Profile









 Re: When a person's heart dies from religious upbringing

I sometimes wished that we never went to Church as a young boy. I was religiously indoctrinated. I had prayed the futile prayer of wishing that I was just an ordinary sinner that had no clue who Jesus was stumbling in a church service and getting saved. Being brought up in a Pentecostal surroundings I have watched sinners come in to the church get saved and go out changed and go into the ministry or do some work for the Lord while those of us who were brought up in the Church remain warming a pew. I was damaged goods. I was a product of man's sermons, man's doctrines and teachings. And there was hardly anything wrong with those teachings, but there is no faith in any of it. And that is what the sinner would have when he came in drunk, or the drug addict who walked away delivered by the power of God and now ministers to other drug addicts. Religion had done it's work in me, it gave me no testimony.

It was by divine appointment that I had to be delivered from all that and be transferred to a closet. It was there that the painful work of stripping off all of man's ideas and taking on the mind of Christ. I wanted what God had for me, but it was very painful, a dark chapter of my life swept over me filled with confusion, uncertainty and depressions. Who knew that the teachings we held to like Calvinism or any of the innocent teachings that we hold so dear would be a hindrance to my walk with God. Truth must prevail and I realized that Truth is not paper and ink, it's a person, Jesus Christ. Paper and Ink only tells about the person but it's not Truth. Many of you will disagree, but that's okay. Perhaps it's very possible that you might have the same religious spirit that I had.

A good way to know if one has a religious spirit, they will always defend their doctrine. That is why it gets heated in some forums. Religious spirits are dominating the forum.

Jesus showed me in a dream once that He is not in the doctrines that we teach because what we teach is flesh. His doctrine is something that is imparted, it's life, not flesh.

True doctrine is living. It's not head knowledge. It's not acquiring knowledge and then repeating the same thing to others.

When we walk in Righteousness, His doctrine will follow us. I can't express it in the words that I would like to, the only word I can say is that it's alive. What we teach is the deadness of the letter, we think that that is doctrine. That is why these denominations within Christendom are all dead. They all started out with life, but ended up with death.

John 7:17 If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Ah, I like this.

Acts 13:12 Then the deputy, when he saw what was done, believed, being astonished at the doctrine of the Lord.

Notice how the doctrine and the power of God go hand in hand in these two verses? If it's only head knowledge and no power it's just head knowledge, it's dead.



 2012/7/6 21:56
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1357
Lakeland FL

 Re:

Quote:

I think this is true. When a person starts getting cold in their spirit all kinds of excuses start coming forward as for why they are in rebellion against God. The more they drift into sin, the more they will despise their Godly upbringing. No parent is perfect, but who can criticize parents that tried to raise their kids up right in this present evil world? I'm persuaded to believe that if we had a true revelation of God, the likes of which men like Isaiah experienced in Isaiah 6, we would not be quick to act like folk that try to live Holy before God are religious nuts and legalists. In fact, when we finally stand before God to give an account of our lives frowardness and high-handed talk will be driven far from us.

Understand that it is Satan that desires folk to forget about the eternality of our actions on earth. He would like to make all of us flippant smart alecs. The trouble with this is that many of us were not raised in church, but grew up in a diabolic environment. We know what real fear is as kids. We know what it is to tremble wondering from one minute to the next if we will live or die at the hands of crazed men. I would have given a kings ransome to have had a nights peace in a Christian home where I didn't have to be afraid when I was a child.



While I agree with your sentiments the whole thing then presupposes that if you grow up in a 'Christian' home then you are a Christian when in fact it appears you can grow up in a Christian home and do all the 'right' things and rebel from it because you don't know who God is for yourself. Only from your parents but the heart is devoid of God but in the cases on these blogs there comes a strict adherences to rules which adds to the consequences of choices.


_________________
John

 2012/7/6 21:58Profile
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1357
Lakeland FL

 Re:

Quote:

by Approved on 2012/7/6 18:56:00

I sometimes wished that we never went to Church as a young boy. I was religiously indoctrinated. I had prayed the futile prayer of wishing that I was just an ordinary sinner that had no clue who Jesus was stumbling in a church service and getting saved. Being brought up in a Pentecostal surroundings I have watched sinners come in to the church get saved and go out changed and go into the ministry or do some work for the Lord while those of us who were brought up in the Church remain warming a pew. I was damaged goods. I was a product of man's sermons, man's doctrines and teachings. And there was hardly anything wrong with those teachings, but there is no faith in any of it. And that is what the sinner would have when he came in drunk, or the drug addict who walked away delivered by the power of God and now ministers to other drug addicts. Religion had done it's work in me, it gave me no testimony.

It was by divine appointment that I had to be delivered from all that and be transferred to a closet. It was there that the painful work of stripping off all of man's ideas and taking on the mind of Christ. I wanted what God had for me, but it was very painful, a dark chapter of my life swept over me filled with confusion, uncertainty and depressions. Who knew that the teachings we held to like Calvinism or any of the innocent teachings that we hold so dear would be a hindrance to my walk with God. Truth must prevail and I realized that Truth is not paper and ink, it's a person, Jesus Christ. Paper and Ink only tells about the person but it's not Truth. Many of you will disagree, but that's okay. Perhaps it's very possible that you might have the same religious spirit that I had.

A good way to know if one has a religious spirit, they will always defend their doctrine. That is why it gets heated in some forums. Religious spirits are dominating the forum.

Jesus showed me in a dream once that He is not in the doctrines that we teach because what we teach is flesh. His doctrine is something that is imparted, it's life, not flesh.

True doctrine is living. It's not head knowledge. It's not acquiring knowledge and then repeating the same thing to others.

When we walk in Righteousness, His doctrine will follow us. I can't express it in the words that I would like to, the only word I can say is that it's alive. What we teach is the deadness of the letter, we think that that is doctrine. That is why these denominations within Christendom are all dead. They all started out with life, but ended up with death.

John 7:17 If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Ah, I like this.

Acts 13:12 Then the deputy, when he saw what was done, believed, being astonished at the doctrine of the Lord.

Notice how the doctrine and the power of God go hand in hand in these two verses? If it's only head knowledge and no power it's just head knowledge, it's dead.




I don't often say this because it is such overkill but this post is just awesome to me. I think it is so because the honesty involved in it and the unpreachiness of it. Just very genuine and I grab onto that.


_________________
John

 2012/7/6 22:17Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
While I agree with your sentiments the whole thing then presupposes that if you grow up in a 'Christian' home then you are a Christian when in fact it appears you can grow up in a Christian home and do all the 'right' things and rebel from it because you don't know who God is for yourself. Only from your parents but the heart is devoid of God but in the cases on these blogs there comes a strict adherences to rules which adds to the consequences of choices.



Denny Kenaston has a good teaching on this very issue. No person can be trained to be a Christian, we must be born again. Yet, there is great value in protecting the mind from the trappings of sin.


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2012/7/7 1:45Profile
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

Yes, you must be born-again and parents should express the dynamic expression of Christ in their lives to their children, not religious rules and regulations. The letter truly killeth but the Spirit gives life.

Many people think salvation, righteousness, holiness, grace, etc, etc are things they own because of some confession or agreement they made years prior.

But all of these things are only found in Jesus Christ and apart from Him you have nothing and can do nothing. But the majority of men have taken His word and created a religious system out of it that does not impart life.

Salvation, righteousness, holiness, peace, grace are all JESUS CHRIST. Eternal Life is Jesus Christ. Love is Jesus Christ.

So, tell me, if you are not abiding in Christ, what to you have?

Religiousity is a terrible taskmaster and will strip your soul.

We are not called to give it "out best effor", or work for Jesus "to the best of our ability". Christianity is not about you. It is Christ in you, living through you. You have been joined to Him in spiritual union, but shortly after most people get born-again, they take a left somewhere into the myriad world of men's doctrines and traditions and then the LIFE slowly seeps out of them.

Approved, thank you for your testimony. It doesn't matter if you were a drunk, drug addict or religious person, the important thing is you found the simplicity of Jesus Christ.

Pilgrim

 2012/7/7 1:58Profile
Lkid
Member



Joined: 2007/7/6
Posts: 109


 Re:

the "message" she is referring to is not the paraphrase of the bible written by Eugene Peterson but is a potential cult led by William Branham.

 2012/7/7 3:53Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7464
Mississippi

 Re: When a person's heart dies from religious upbringing

John,

I have worked at a Crises Pregnancy Center for fifteen years. Doing so exposed me to all kinds of excuses and reasons people have for rebelling/sinning.

The excuses Sierra give for rejecting Christianity is the same regardless what church one comes from, be it Pentecostal, Baptist, Catholic or Mennonite - the details just vary. This is rebellion, plain and simple and in so doing you will have to look for reasons to justify it. And let us admit it, there will be plenty if you are looking for some but that is no excuse that will stand when you appear before the great white throne on judgement day. God will not allow you in because you were so severely offended by someone somewhere.

Having said all this I will tell you this. The angriest clients I had were from the Pentecostal tradition. They were the epitome of rebellion, the like we did not see otherwise. I have my theory why this is so but that is another topic... I must say this, too, I had married Pentecostal ladies that had about them a sweet spirit - it is good I had them to counter-act the impression the rebellious gave me.

How to respond to these blogs - I think I would just not respond UNLESS the HOLY SPIRIT would nudge me to do so otherwise you would be casting your pearls before swine.

God bless.

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2012/7/7 8:49Profile





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