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DEADn
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Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1357
Lakeland FL

 When a person's heart dies from religious upbringing

Below is the introduction of a blog that I ocasionally read. This person is one among many which I have found with the same or similiar stories. I don't know if you could classify her life as being within a cult or just a simple fundamentalist element in Christianity or something else. Yet I bring this to the forums attention for a reason. This kind of stuff is beginning to happen alot. When a person's heart becomes like this lady's heart because of her experience and what she says she knows how, how does a Christian respond to such a story and experience? It is my view that all a Christian can do is listen and ask questions to find out where the heart is and just simply prayer for the person. Anything more than that would just really get in the way.

Sometimes I wonder if such an area falls under the category of what Jesus said when he said it would be better to have a millstone tied around your neck and cast into the sea than to offend a little one.

What do you folks think?

John




Sierra’s Story

I grew up fundamentalist. Twelve years in darkness, twelve years in fear. I lived so close to death that I could feel it brushing against my fingertips. Always around the corner was the Rapture, the Tribulation, the falling bombs, the assaults of the devil. I tried to root the evil out of myself, first by starving, then by systematically divesting myself of the things that I loved. All my efforts seemed hopeless. God didn’t want me – or so I thought. It turns out that the root of the evil wasn’t inside me at all. It was in the mental virus that plagued my church and those around it. My homeschool community. My world was full of it.

It was the Christian Patriarchy Movement, disguised in a church that fancied itself very different. “The Message of the Hour,” the believers in the prophet, the last remnant of God’s chosen people. It turns out that we were no different from the others, really. A splintered church, eagerly sipping from the pot of the Religious Right. We absorbed courtship, purity balls, pledges and lockets with keys that belonged to our fathers. We rejected music, we rejected dating and above all the public sphere. Women especially were kept at home, reading Elsie Dinsmore and books from Vision Forum. We bought I Kissed Dating Goodbye and read Zionist novels. We believed we were so very, very unique.

We were part of the network. In my blogroll, you’ll see the variety of denominations that subscribe to the Patriarchy Movement. It never begins or ends with just one person. It’s a movement in every sense: a rolling wave of beliefs that seek to engulf the United States and finally the world, to re-establish Christendom.

The first installment of my story was posted at No Longer Quivering in October 2009. I am nearly done.

You can find all of the entries of my story here, arranged from most recent to earliest:

Daughter of the Patriarchy Series

I have written a lot about William Branham here, the man who founded the Message. I believe he’s much less an anomaly than Message believers would have you think. Was it just a cult I escaped from? That’s far too easy a dismissal. The similarities are hard to ignore. Read. Learn. Ask me questions. I am holding out my hand – if you are leaving the Message, or a fundamentalist church of any stripe, don’t be afraid. I survived. You will, too.


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John

 2012/7/6 11:53Profile
Trekker
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Joined: 2011/7/29
Posts: 683
northern USA

 Re: When a person's heart dies from religious upbringing

There is not a lot of information given here as to what she is complaining about exactly. However, i CAN say that The Message is GARBAGE. It is written, "Beware of the scribes". For centuries now the scribes have been trying to rewrite the Word of God. Satan has his counterfeit of everything, including God's Word. And The Message is just one more counterfeit, along with all the modern "versions" of the Bible. As for fundamentalism, well, that word gets slapped on a LOT of people, including those who simply follow the Word of God. Trouble is, some families get way too strict and legalistic about it, and she sounds like her family may have been in some kind of cult. I say that because of her reference to "the prophet" and the "patriarchy movement" which i have never heard of before but which sounds, well, like most cults sound. They are all trying to start a new movement.

How to respond to such a person? Tell her "Don't go to church anymore, just go to Jesus". She won't want to go to any church anyway, so just advise her to go to Jesus instead, and get to know Him/His Word on her own by reading it without the trappings of RELIGION.

 2012/7/6 12:10Profile
DEADn
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Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1357
Lakeland FL

 Re:

Trekker

What I posted was her introduction link that is one her blog. She has been writing alot about her upbringing experience and that is because it has troubled her so much. What is sad is I have cross paths with many others who have grown up in a similiar way. Quiverful and patriarchy are 2 of the big buzz words that I find in their blogs. Apparently these movements are doing what cultic movements love to do, that is take certain part of the bible, take them as literal as possible and make doctrine out of it. Then abuse begins and eventually some of the adherents die from the inside and once they get out become atheists as a result.

When I read some of these blogs I look for clues as to what they are try to convey and what these systems did to their minds and how they are trying to right a wrong that was done to them. It is very heart breaking for me to read these stories.


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John

 2012/7/6 12:27Profile
rainydaygirl
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Joined: 2008/10/27
Posts: 742


 Re:

deadn- When I read some of these blogs I look for clues as to what they are try to convey and what these systems did to their minds and how they are trying to right a wrong that was done to them. It is very heart breaking for me to read these stories.

---
I would pray for her and all the others you have read about. None of the things she spoke of in themselves are bad, its when men/women get involved and then decide what means what and make these teaching that are Biblical a law to be followed or else. I don't follow after Jesus because I have to, I do it because I want to. I do it because of who He is and that is what draws me to loving Him and obeying His Word. I don't follow Him because of what anyone tells me I must do, I follow because of Him.

Can I ask you what are you hoping to find out with all this reading of blogs, I mean on a personal level what is it that you hope to discover and will it help you do you think with your own walk with the Jesus?

rdg

 2012/7/6 14:17Profile
mama27
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Joined: 2010/11/20
Posts: 1378


 Re:

Brother Denny Kenaston would be considered to be in the "Patriarchy Movement".....as a homeschooler myself, there are a large number of people I have seen over 25 years, who have been convicted that they are to have the number of children God wants them to have. My own children wrestle with the "quiverfull" and "patriarchy" ideas and have wondered if this is a cult. Speaking for myself only, I do not believe there is anything of legalism in trying to walk holy before God and set-apart from this world...in the world, but not OF the world. This does not necessarily translate down to our children however. If the children themselves, even when young adults, are not truly saved, and totally yielded to the Holy Spirit, then these convictions that GOD put on Believing parents' hearts, are merely rules to them. They are put on from the outside, and it doesn't work. YES - there are surely cases of "spiritual" abuse...but I don't think these are the norm. I know of many families who are just trying to raise up children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, and who are convinced that modern-day "Christianity" is watered down and compromising. Add to this picture a child's unregenerate heart, or possibly backslidden/rebellious state, and you have all these writings that have turned "quiverfull" into "quivering".....This is just my take on the situation from 25 years of homeschooling a large family. The enemy wants our children, and wants to destroy anything wholesome. I think he is attacking BIGTIME what many honest, sincere Christian parents were trying to do for the Lord in raising up godly seed.....

 2012/7/6 15:14Profile
murrcolr
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Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Rev 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

Nicolaitan meaning conquerors of the lay people


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Colin Murray

 2012/7/6 15:49Profile









 Re: When a person's heart dies from religious upbringing

We, I believe, are witnessing the death knoll of organized Evangelical religious institutions. These institutions have become like the funeral parlor; it's all dead. They have a form of Godliness, but deny the power of Godliness; the actions of an un-grieved Holy Spirit. Murrcolr sensed it, the reason why; the Nicolaitan spirit of religion; the religious spirit of the Pharisee, the priest-class, and all of their amenities.

"This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

We cannot serve God without a revelation of Jesus in our hearts; it cannot be from an order of precepts. This can be doubly hard to break away from, when the Spirit is precluded that forces the model to submit in the safe and dependent confines of the family.

This is precisely how the chains multiply within the cults; to break free you must defy the Patriarch; your own father, your own family, and few do. It becomes generational, as in Islam. There, the righteous control is multiplied, and if you rebel, the father has a duty to kill you; to murder you.

Roman Catholicism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Jehovah Witnesses, and Mormonism all have their families tied into the adherence of orthodoxy. If you back out, you will suffer some form of rejection. Counting the human need for nurture, and the foundation of the family as the vehicle for healthy and spiritual prosperity, it must hurt to be set free; Satan knows this also.

In the Reformation model, [ Amish/Mennonite and the like] ] the child must lose his or her family, and community to break free; either by direct shunning, or indirect community expulsion; IE: You do not belong. He or she must literally start over in life, and many do.

God only saves the sinner; the righteous do not need Him. A child must be saved, born again, no matter how well he was reared, and that is the great deception worldwide. The religious environment of any soul, even living with godly parents, will not save you. You must be born again.

King David proved this out to a T. He may have had the deepest relationship with God ever; certainly in his day. He is quoted as the word of God more than any other in the New Testament, and was promised the birth father of the Lord Himself. He knew God, and even more-so in his failure.

He bore Absalom, who killed his half-brother Amnon, after Amnon raped Absalom's sister, Tamar, and Another son of David, Adonijah, was killed soon after David died. He was the Patriarch of patriarchs, and holy; Why were his sons evil?

Religion and tradition, no matter how orderly and Bible-based they may be, does not reveal the Son of God's love in themselves. It may serve as even harmful to some, like Sierra, who was drilled that this was God, and to submit to it no matter what. What if there is no Holy Spirit that gives LIFE?


Often this is the case, for the Letter [ program] kills, but the Spirit gives life. Living in an orderly Christian life is a good thing, but it may not be if God is substituted by a life-style with it's own traditions embedded within it that say that this is God's way...there is no other.

Children must be given freedom to choose, or they will be damaged. I believe they must be taught that there is none righteous, and not themselves especially, and that they NEED a Savior and their very own witness of their need and the truth of Jesus' willful sacrifice, that saving faith might arise and they would receive Him.

My own Grandmother was saved at the age of twelve, in Alabama. Her heart was warmed while simple worship was sung in a one room country church. She saw herself a sinner, and believed in Jesus, crying out, "I believe!" I believe!" She was baptized later in the Spring when the creek thawed. She remained a believer for 95 years, passing AT 107 years, then the oldest person living in the state of Illinois.

She passed in the death sleep of the Patriarchs; she just refused food and water, and peacefully slept for three days before she slipped away. Before she did, to everyone's surprise, she would light up with joy, as she spoke with other tongues....still asleep. I believe the Father did this as a final witness and a sign to all there, that she was truly saved, as the holy Spirit spoke through her. He never did before that hour; she was never taught it.

12 years old; She was born again. She met Jesus.

"And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them.

But Jesus called them unto him, and said, "Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God."

"Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein."

Only sinners are saved; and that is all of us. We all must be born again. A moral and obedient life will not save us.







 2012/7/6 17:20
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1357
Lakeland FL

 Re:

Quote:

Can I ask you what are you hoping to find out with all this reading of blogs, I mean on a personal level what is it that you hope to discover and will it help you do you think with your own walk with the Jesus?




One of the things it does for me is sharpen my critical thinking skills when it comes to religious ideology by dissecting what I read and separating what is probably of God and what is of man in the form of God.

It also helps me in dialogue with them because in the pastor I have counseled with many people in relation to God in their lives by listening to their heart first.

On another level I am learning and trying to understand what these sects are doing to the lives of people in the Name of God and how it is affecting their lives. This is why I titled my post the way I did.

I am also wondering about those who have taken an extreme view from their upbringing if their soul is hardened as a result of their upbringing or if it will be death before they can know that God truly exists or not.

It is really a part of my reality tv so to speak. People's lives in the shadow of life and in this case in the shadow of what they are perceiving what Christianity and Jesus is when it is a skewed view.

Does that make sense?

John


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John

 2012/7/6 18:26Profile
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2734
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
One of the things it does for me is sharpen my critical thinking skills when it comes to religious ideology by dissecting what I read and separating what is probably of God and what is of man in the form of God.



And so what this woman has written in her blog is of God? I briefly looked at it, it is filled with talk and images about sex.

It is not religious upbringing (even legalism) that kills hearts, it is the love of sin.

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2012/7/6 19:26Profile
murrcolr
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Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote: These institutions have become like the funeral parlor; it's all dead. They have a form of Godliness, but deny the power of Godliness; the actions of an un-grieved Holy Spirit. Murrcolr sensed it, the reason why; the Nicolaitan spirit of religion; the religious spirit of the Pharisee, the priest-class, and all of their amenities.

Murrcolr didn’t sense it he had to go through it, I had to experience it the first night I walked into church God spoke to me and he told the “Church is dead and it's time to move on" but that he was going to raise up a people, a people of victory and that when he does this work of raising up the people a lot of pastors are going to struggle because they control the people. The people are going to do the work of the ministry, the people are going to cast out devils, the people are going to take the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ to a lost and dying world.

For the next 7-8 years I was in a church, which had a pastor that controlled the people. If any stood up to step out and do what God was telling them to do he the pastor did everything to undermine that person including using the pulpit, any one that had any special anointing or gifting got to a certain level and then was attacked by some accusation from the pulpit. I watched many people’s lives get damaged; I saw how people turned away from God. The saddest part was the youth how the life in them was squeezed to death by the constant correcting and reminding of what they couldn’t do… I walked out with my family and lost all my friends that were in the church and this was a “Non denominational charismatic church”

“Church is dead and it's time to move on" meaning: the way it was done and the way it is done are longer going to work. The Holy Spirit has moved on and he is going to raise up the people. What sort of people if you want a name "Nicolas" meaning the people of victory if you want a scripture Rev 15:2.


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Colin Murray

 2012/7/6 19:33Profile





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