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Blayne
Member



Joined: 2012/5/27
Posts: 274


 Re:

Hi! 'Jimur'

Sin, What Is It?

The bible teaches that the devil is the source of all evil. He is identical with sin, sickness and death. He is the substance and author of unrighteousness. Without the devil there is no sin, and where he is, darkness reigns. Satan and his angels are united with darkness by means of eternal bonds. John says, "He who commits sin is of the devil"; this means: has been impregnated by the devil.

In the days of James there were people who wrongly thought that they were "tempted by God". When man commits sin, the origin of his iniquity is not in himself but in the evil powers whom he has had fellowship with. James 1:15 says that sin is born in the unseen world after having been conceived. The impregnation takes place from the outside.

Temptation may be passive as well active. It is passive when a person, through his desires, draws evil towards himself; active when he tries to convey it towards somebody else. As for God, the apostle shows that it is impossible for Him to be involved in any way: "God cannot be tempted with evil [passive] and He himself tempts no one [active]", (James 1:14).

God has nothing to do with sin. "But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire". The devil shows the person something enticing [active], and then his desires begin to covet it [passive]. Never is evil the product of fellowship with God. This is impossible. "No one born of God commits sin, for God's nature abides an him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God", (1John 3:9).

God is spirit and, coming from Him, the Holy Spirit unites Himself with man's born-again spirit. Good works are the fruit of this fellowship. The fruits of fellowship with the evil spirits are sinful works.

The origin of good and evil are both in the spiritual world. In natural life it takes intercourse to conceive fruit. The same applies to the spiritual or unseen world. The results show in the works which are called after the conceivers: fruits of the Spirit or works of darkness. Thus sin is a fruit in the spiritual world, brought about as a result of fellowship between a human spirit and an evil one. In the visible world sin manifests itself by means of the flesh. as work of the flesh.

The bible uses the word sin in four different meanings.

1.
It says that sin came into the world through one man. Here the word sin indicates the unclean and evil spirits and their master: Satan. He took the government of the world away from man. He became the ruler of this world and through (the powers of) sin he rules as a king. This is the meaning in which the following texts have to be taken: "You were once slaves of sin"; "He who has died is free from sin", (as the wife is free from her husband after his death); "Set free from sin"; "Sin deceived me"; "So then it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells in me".

2.
However, just as child is named after his father so the fruit of the evil one is also called sin. "I am writing this to you that you may not (commit) sin". "He who commits sin is of the devil". The verb "to sin" has the meaning of committing a sinful act. "Go and do not sin again". "Who sinned, this man or his parents?". "Be angry but do not sin".

3.
There is the conception and the birth of sin. In between the two above stages, sin is in the inner man in a kind of embryonic state.

This is the stage of the sinful thoughts, developing in the spiritual and unseen world. Desire has been impregnated, it has conceived, but as yet sin has not been brought forth as an act. An example of this is hate, of which the Lord said that before God it is regarded as murder. So is lust: "Everyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart".

and, 4.
The fourth meaning of the word sin is: that which after an act of sin the guilt or debt of sin stays behind in the soul. The bible calls this the treasure of wrath.
Scripture also mentions another, positive treasure in heaven: that which we store up by means of good works.

The following verses have the word sin in the meaning of debt or guilt: "The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world". "Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her". "In whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins". Jesus took sin away on the cross at Calvary. There God made his Son to be sin, that is, the Father put on Him the sins of the world that in Him we might be "the righteousness of God".

This righteousness is reckoned to us. "He is the expiation for our sins (guilt), and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world", (1John 2:2) . Notwithstanding this act of deliverance on God's part for the whole of humanity the prophet says: "If favor is shown to the wicked, he does not learn righteousness (he goes on committing sin); in the land of uprightness he deals perversely and does not see the majesty of the Lord", (Isaiah 26:10).

This is an excerpt from a pamphlet titled "Bondage and Freedom" which is published on the TLJ Site:
http://www.tolovejesus.com/index.php/full-gospel-books/bondage-and-freedom

 2012/7/5 22:03Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2037
Whittier CA USA

 Re: Do you sin?

I have noticed that many of those that defend sinless perfectionism often avoid answering the simple question, "Do you sin?". They would make it out to be a more complicated question than it really is. The Word of God makes it very clear as to what sin is. It is transgression of God's perfect and holy Law whether in thought, word, or deed(1John3:4).

One reason many proponents of sinless perfectionism avoid the question is because they know that if they are truly honest with themselves and others they cannot really say they do not sin.

And many say that even if they do sin they still believe in the doctrine of complete sinlessness in this life, and try to promote it. Yet I believe it is not right to preach something to others that you yourself do not practice.

And then there are some who boldly lie by saying they do not sin when they actually do. I once knew such a person. I would see him commit sins and he would preach sinless perfection and claim it. He was deceived by this destructive doctrine and it was sad.

jimur, if you have the time, I would encourage you to check out this thread from not too long ago here:
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=45444&forum=36&start=10&viewmode=flat&order=0

This one may also be of interest:
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=45510&forum=36


_________________
Oracio

 2012/7/6 0:35Profile
jimur
Member



Joined: 2012/6/26
Posts: 88


 Re: Do you sin?

Oracio Thank you for the post and the links. For me, they were indeed helpful and in fact did lighten my burden. Had I found them earlier I may not have posed the question. The second added to my thoughts this idea perhaps stems from a hyper edge of a more widely accepted theology.


Heavenly Father, almighty and everlasting, in the name of our Lord Jesus forgive us our sins. Burden us the Spirit call them to our attention. Lead us in your truth, according to your will and that which is pleasing to you alone. Father grant us perseverance that we might follow in that truth into all truth and in such light eternally glorify you Sovereign above all. Amen

 2012/7/6 10:08Profile









 Re:

jimur

Question : Do you believe it possible to be without sin in this life?

Answer : Yes

Question : What is your definition of sin?

Answer : Anything that breaks His Holy law but does not include the result of the fall like sickness and errors of judgement.

Question : What are errors of judgement?

Answer : Misjudging the intentions of someone, usually thinking they are better than they are. God does not expect us to be all wise.

Question : Is there room for growth in sinless perfection?

Answer : Yes growth in spiritual knowledge.

Question : What happens if you sin?

Answer : The same thng as happened to Adam, you forfeit your place in paradise. He that sins belongs to the devil.

Question : Have you been in this state?

Answer : Yes, twice but lost it again.

Question : Are you in this state at present?

Answer : I prefer not to say. It does not affect the doctrine and I would rather the focus be on Christ than myself. Even if I said yes, it is pointless to try to judge me as man rarely can judge correctly unless he is sinless too. No-one believed Christ.

 2012/7/6 12:19
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

im maby misunderstanding ,brenda

are you saying if we are not in a stage of sinless perfection,we are sinning and therefor of the devil

so is it right to say ,that youve only been of god twice for a perioud of time ,,,andthe remainder of time your went back to being of the devil ,like adam

 2012/7/6 12:36Profile
EverestoSama
Member



Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


 Re:

Quote:
Question : Have you been in this state?

Answer : Yes, twice but lost it again.



Which surprise, surprise, is the type answer I continually here from those who promote this.

Every believer who has ever lived has obtained sinless perfection, until they've sinned, and needed to repent, thus beginning the cycle again.

 2012/7/6 12:42Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2037
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Quote:
Question : What happens if you sin?

Answer : The same thng as happened to Adam, you forfeit your place in paradise. He that sins belongs to the devil.(krautfrau)



That would mean that those trusting in Christ as Savior and Lord lose their salvation everyday if they commit one sin everyday. It would mean one would have to remain sinless in order to remain saved?

That is a very hyper/extreme view of sinless perfectionism. So sad for those who get caught up in it.

Quote:
Question : Have you been in this state?

Answer : Yes, twice but lost it again.(krautfrau)



So you lost your salvation twice and are currently unsaved because you are not currently sinless(in another recent thread you asked for prayer in that regard).

How sad krautfrau. That is not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. Hope you can come to a place where you see such deception of the enemy and repent and trust in Christ and Christ alone for your salvation. I will pray for your deliverance.
Sincerely,
Oracio


_________________
Oracio

 2012/7/6 13:38Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2037
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Quote:
Oracio Thank you for the post and the links. For me, they were indeed helpful and in fact did lighten my burden. Had I found them earlier I may not have posed the question. The second added to my thoughts this idea perhaps stems from a hyper edge of a more widely accepted theology.


Heavenly Father, almighty and everlasting, in the name of our Lord Jesus forgive us our sins. Burden us the Spirit call them to our attention. Lead us in your truth, according to your will and that which is pleasing to you alone. Father grant us perseverance that we might follow in that truth into all truth and in such light eternally glorify you Sovereign above all. Amen(jimur)


Amen jimur! I once lived with a brother who was starting to get caught up in this doctrine and it was weighing heavy on him. He would examine his thoughts and heart and would get really down and depressed because he wanted to be perfect and thought that God was rejecting him for not being perfect. After we prayed for him the Lord set him free from that deception and he was able to see it for what it was, as a lie from the pit of hell. He said he felt as if some demons were lifted from him and stopped oppressing him with this deception.


_________________
Oracio

 2012/7/6 13:59Profile









 Re:

brothergary

I understand saved as being saved from sin so yes it we are sinning then we are of the devil.

EverestoSama

"Every believer who has ever lived has obtained sinless perfection, until they've sinned, and needed to repent, thus beginning the cycle again."

I don`t believe that one becomes sinless when they become a believer. It happens later It is not normal to be in a cycle and if you read about the holiness movement in the 18th C they would lose it once then become established. But very few enter it today.

Oracio

"It would mean one would have to remain sinless in order to remain saved?"

Yes and it is not sad at all it is the most amazing thing when one is in it. Having command over creation (like Adam) is one of the benefits and that in itself is amazing. Please dont pray for me. I dont want to delivered from this `deception` I want to be restored.

Brenda

 2012/7/6 14:09









 Re:

It is hard to describe what it is like to be in this state. It can be compared with being in love, that feeling of joy and excitement inside, that feeling of being in exctacy, bubbling up inside and the presence of God being so strong like the time when you first came to Christ and were forgiven. Once one has experienced it there is nothing to compare it to. The words in scripture suddenly have real meaning and especially the words joy and freedom. In this state there is absolute healing of all the scars of life. I went for over 30 years not knowing what I was missing but now I do. Nothing is impossible when one is in this state and sin is not even in the picture. Pleasing God is the only thought.

Brenda

 2012/7/6 14:21





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