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Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


No problem. Always let the Word of God be your defense and your stance. You'll get heat for it (even/especially from other believers), but that's what we were promised anyway, right?

 2012/7/6 1:07Profile

Joined: 2011/9/16
Posts: 207

 Re: Speaking the truth...

I can relate to your situation, consider these:

and even Paul said, "as sorrowful, yet always rejoicing"

notice that Paul said that to encourage others who are suffering, but not all men seem to see this that's why Jesus said to the church in Laodicea:

Rev 3:17-18 Because you say, I am rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing, and do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked,
I counsel you to buy from Me gold purified by fire, so that you may be rich; and white clothing, so that you may be clothed, and so that the shame of your nakedness does not appear. And anoint your eyes with eye salve, so that you may see.

Tell the truth, be honest, Paul is honest when they said ' as sorrowful, yet always rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, yet possessing all things.'
because of the joy set before him...
what is 'positive' is not the truth, and 'positive' confessions cannot change the truth...
men are the one who need to change if we are in conflict with the truth

 2012/7/6 8:59Profile

 Why the positive confession is BLASPHEMY.

The modern roots of this heresy are traced to E. W. Kenyon, though plagiarized by Kenneth Hagin who claims the fatherhood of it all. It's ancient roots are Babylonian, and are practiced in many pagan Priesthoods, fueled by transcendental meditation and the model of contemplative [inward] focused prayer, such as the Hindi Yoga's, the Tibetan Buddhist, or the Roman Catholic monasteries.

In this pattern, guided imagery and intense focus are used to get what you see and speak, even attain spiritual power. David Yonngi Cho of Korea teaches these same methods, visualization and such, to attain in the Material world what he speaks and desires. I have heard him teach here in America many years ago.

His most famous testimony is about the big red bicycle. He claims he visualized this to the T.; color and all, and as he saw it, and claimed it, it came to pass; he got it. He then began to visualize people, and today he sits on top of the largest "christian" cult in the world." This is a spirit; and an ungodly one. It is a fortress of doctrines that want you to believe that serving yourself as a god is why you exist.

Therefore as a god, what you speak and see and claim; You will be. It denies the cross of Jesus, and in some doctrinal ways, blatantly. The end of it is blasphemy, and following this cultic idea will lead one to Hell, not God.

Article below:

Now you are "Divine" you can "Name It And Claim It!".............The Christian Expositor

Clear Scripture passages are altered to fit the Word-Faith system to establish the believer as one who possesses the divine nature so that he can realize his "legal authority." With this realization comes the knowledge, power, and ability of God. Kenyon says you can "walk as Jesus walked, without any consciousness of inferiority to God or Satan" (The Hidden Man, p. 24).

Once the position of being "the same order of being as God" has been established, then it becomes necessary to demonstrate that this "re-created spirit" has unlimited power to create his own reality through positive confession. Capps in his publication, The Tongue - A Creative Force, explains:

"God's Word is spiritual law. It functions just as sure as any natural law. Words governed by spiritual law become spiritual forces working for you. Idle words work against you. ... The natural world is to be controlled by man speaking God's words" (p. 8-9) "You have to believe that those things that you say - everything that you say - will come to pass" (p. 24).

"Man was created in God's class. ... a spirit being, very capable of operating on the same level of faith as God. ...This is not theory. It is fact. It is spiritual law. It works every time it is applied correctly. To imitate God, you must talk like Him and act like Him" (p. 130-131). "The Word of God conceived in the heart, formed by the tongue, and spoken out of the mouth is creative power. ...The spoken Word will work for you as you continually confess it" (p. 148).
[ ignorant blasphemy.].................BT

The bedrock of Word-Faith doctrine is what Kenyon calls "new creation realities." For the rest of the Word-Faith assertions to work, man first must be exalted to a high position. Word-Faith teaching puts man on the same level as Jesus Christ.

This is done by assembling Scripture passages to purportedly prove that once a man is in Christ, then the "new creature" spoken of in 2 Corinthians 5:17 is recreated as a new species of being. Kenyon writes: "You see, man is a spirit being. He is in the same class with God. He was created in the image and likeness of God. He had to be in order to become a partaker of the Divine Nature. When he sinned he became a partaker of Satan's nature, selfishness. ...

The part of man that is re-created in [sic] his spirit. God imparts to our spirit His own nature, Eternal Life" (The Hidden Man, p.121).

When that happens one is "a new species of being that never existed before" (Kenneth Copeland, Now We Are In Christ Jesus, p. 5). Hagin says "the believer is as much an Incarnation as Jesus Christ" (Faith Food, p. 23). Kenneth Copeland says "Jesus is no longer the only begotten son of God" "Now We Are In Christ Jesus!"

p. 24). "We are the Word made flesh, just as Jesus was." (Gloria Copeland, quoted in Crenshaw, Man as God, 202). So, in the Word-Faith teaching, Jesus loses his uniqueness. The believer is elevated to the position of being a God-man the same way Jesus was a God-man.

They claim that the only difference is Jesus obtained his position by birth and the rest obtain it by a re-creation of the spirit. Read Isaiah 44:8: "Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any" (cf. Isaiah 43:10; John 1:18; John 5:44; John 17:3; James 2:19; 1 Timothy 2:5; Colossians 1:14-17; Hebrews 1:2-3).

What happened to the Blood Atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ?

A further denial of the uniqueness of Jesus occurs in Word-Faith teachings on the atonement. According to their interpretation of Scripture, much more happened during Christ's crucifixion and death than is orthodox or Scriptural. "Jesus went into hell to free mankind. … When His blood poured out it did not atone." (Kenneth Copeland, quoted in McConnell, Different Gospel, 120).

"When [Jesus] said 'it is finished,' on that cross, He was not speaking of the plan of redemption. The plan of redemption had just begun. There was still three days and three nights to go through. ... [in hell], He suffered punishment for three horrible days and nights . . . "He's [Jesus] separated from His God and in that moment He's a mortal man: capable of failure, capable of death""

(Kenneth Copeland, What Happened from the Cross to the Throne, cassette tape). "Jesus died as our substitute. He who knew no sin was made to be sin. He took upon Himself our sin nature. And He died - He was separated and cut off from God. He went down into the prison house of suffering in our place. He was there three days and nights . . ."Not only was He physically resurrected - His body resurrected - but His spirit was made alive unto God again. He had died spiritually.

He took upon Himself spiritual death - for us. And He is the first one who was ever born again. His new birth is our new birth" (Kenneth Hagin, Made Alive, April 1982, p. 3). "He suffered in his own body, and more important, in His spirit. Jesus experienced the same spiritual death that entered man in the Garden of Eden [i.e., He took on Satan's nature]. ... After Jesus was made sin, He had to be born again.

Copied from this most excellent website...BT

.......I hope this helps; BT

 2012/7/6 10:39

 Re: Speaking the truth... Honest and Good heart.....

Are we to only speak in faith and positive or are we able to speak the truth?
Thanks for your advice.Spekgirl

"The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity.

But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance."

It is impossible to go through life without sorrow and suffering. It is not negative, or bad; it is just the way the Universe is for now. I think that some devout Christians suffer more in life than they experience happiness. Happiness is fleeting; it will come and go, but it is not the goal as we live our lives. The goal is to be conformed to the living image of God.

This goal has to do with a daily Denial of ourselves, as we follow Jesus, and to slay that evil nature within; NOT to act upon it,and it's various cravings to consume life for itself.

And He was saying to them all, “ If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me."

Sin exists, as does or satanic nature [ insert your name ]. We are commanded to overcome and endure. When you felt that pang to be honest to your friends, it was God convicting you to be honest. What they are doing is lying. It is not faith to lie about your situation. It is faith to believe God knows, and loves you in the midst of that situation, be it happy or sad. God leaves us Peace; which is above being happy or sad or sorrow.

Here is the Apostle John on Patmos. He has lost everything. All the Apostles have been slain, his best friends. He has no family, he is very old, and is living on an Island prison, probably in a hole in the ground.

I suspect that his diet was meager, and he would have liked a warm bed and a hot meal. He was alone,and solitary in his sorrow.

"I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus."

Tribulation:..grievous trouble; severe trial or suffering.
or.. an instance of this; an affliction, trouble,

Perseverance:..Steadfastness in doing something despite difficulty or delay in achieving success.
..or Continuance in a state of grace leading finally to a state of glory.

Yet, John had the Kingdom. His body and soul were indeed Earthbound, but his spirit was born from above, and that is where he rested. He had put on the mind of Christ. This is true faith.

We could translate this confession of John like this.

"I am your brother, John. I am undergoing severe trial and suffering and affliction here, as I know you are too. I also have been given strength to endure, and I am steadfast in Jesus' hope also, as I know you are too, for we are together under His strength in His Kingdom. I know that for both of us, or continuance in this faith will lead us to glory with him forever."

It had nothing to do with happiness or well being, it had everything to do with enduring whatever came his way to glorify his Master, and to be changed inside to please him.

This must be our faith confession, all the way, and the harder days will come.

"Behold, an hour is coming, and has already come, for you to be scattered, each to his own home, and to leave Me alone; and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me.

These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace.
In the world you have tribulation,
...but take courage;
I have overcome the world.”..Jesus of Nazareth

 2012/7/6 11:26

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