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The areas in the world were persecution is very real is taking place because of the stand for Christ over against real reigns of man. Just as the early Church was persecuted because of a stand against the Roman Empire.
These stands are in fundemental opposition to the powers or governments of man. The North American Church loves the world and the security of the powers and governments of man. So until that changes the world listens to our beliefs and goes " Oh that's nice" while it's yawning.
| 2012/6/29 23:10|
| Re: The great persecution that is soon to come upon the Church|
Appolus, i agree with everything you wrote. However, i have endured persecutions/abuse my entire life and i really don't know how i will be able to bear up under what is coming. I have never known anything BUT persecution and abuse from people everywhere my foot lands, so to say i am sick of it would be a great, great understatement. I have been persecuted/abused/hated just for existing, for being, and secondly also for standing up for right over wrong and against injustice. And thirdly also i have been hated & scorned for my Christian views and statements/beliefs/the cause of Christ. I am and have been hated with a near murderous hatred by even my own relatives (some of them out of jealousy and some of them because they listen to liars and gossips about me--and are liars and gossips themselves).
Those of you who have never experienced any kind of abuse and persecution i envy you. But i have had nearly an entire half-century of it and i have often thirsted for death. Yea, death would be the easy part. So i almost think i would rather go to war in defense of conservative values than stick around.
| 2012/6/29 23:51||Profile|
| Re: |
HI Trekker. One of the questions that I asked in my piece was whether one could embrace a God that calls them to martyrdom? The question is a valid one brother and one we all must ask ourselves.
Now I am sure that you know something of the first several centuries of the Church? In fact, if one is tracing the Pilgrim Church, or call it the remnant Church or whatever name you choose to call Gods Church, Gods people here on earth, then you will find a suffering Church. All day long, like Lambs to the slaughter. Those who follow the Lord Jesus and have laid down their lives are no longer in the defending business. Their lives are not their own, they have been bought with a price, the precious Blood of Calvary. If we are living a life where we are ridiculed for Christ and persecuted for His sake then we are blessed, this of course is not my thoughts but what Scripture teaches. We are promised that we will have trials and tribulations in the world but we are to be of good cheer for we serve a Lord who has overcome the world.
To go on a war in defence of " conservative values," makes no sense brother. There is no calling in Scripture to go on such a war. What we do see down through the ages is the Holy Spirit burning in the persecuted saints to where they love and forgive their tormentors, like the Lord Jesus on the cross. Have you suffered as He did brother? And yet the Lord calls upon His Father to forgive them for they did not know what they were doing. This is the power of love, this is the power of rendering not evil for evil, this is the spirit of Stephen as he was being stoned. To love those who love us is one thing and natural, to love those who hate us is the power of Jesus Christ burning in us. God does not abandon us, in fact He never leaves us nor forsakes us. When we yield to His will, He fills us with His Spirit and His presence and in this we overcome.
I know a little of persecution Trekker. My mother became a born-again Christian when I was 7 in Scotland. From that moment, even although they had already been married for ten years, my father began to beat her severly for her faith. I saw her beaten 1000 times. I saw countless blck eyes. I saw a broken jaw. I saw our front door being nailed shut with six inch nails to stop her going to church. I lived where the Bible had to be hidden, and if found, ripped to shreds, drowned, or thrown out of the window. For the whole of my child-hood I was hated for my love of Jesus, not by strangers, but by my father, while he embraced my other two siblings. I realize that it really achieves nothing in sharing these stories brother but I want you to know that I loved and now love my earthly father. My mother taught me that, and the Holy Spirit brought it to pass. So in this small way, I know a little of what I speak, it is not mere theory. The burning hell shaking love overcomes the darkness. This is the power of God, this is the power of Calvary and this is the spirit and the presence that God will pour out in a mighty way. Ten thousand times ten thousand of Stephens walking the land in the power of God and a true demonstration of the Lord Jesus Christ and His victory in Cakvary. Would you agree with me that this world desperately needs to witness a genuine witness of the Lord Jesus? I am sure you know that the Greek translation for martyr is witness?
You will stick around brother until the Lord deems to take you home. And in that time you can either be a genuine witness of Gods hell shattering love or you can pick your war......... but you cant do both. May the Lord bless you brother and draw you to Himself............bro Frank
| 2012/6/30 1:01|
East TN (for now)
| Re: |
There are so many sincere brethren that will find out that we will be going through the tribulation, and suffering can be the tool that God uses to purify those not yet prepared, leading them to repentance.
Pastor Robert B. Thompson has been writing books on this topic for 30 years. He was slandered mightily for his Biblical teachings decades ago, and is rejoicing that God is opening so many Christian's eyes to the what the Bible says. His books are available for free and may be of assistance to those interested.
His sermons are available on this site and his church site, www.wor.org
I've read his writings and agree with you. I also love that all of it is FREE and a free download.
God bless you, hope you come back!
| 2012/6/30 5:29||Profile|
| Re: Trekker|
Brother not trying to be funny or unsympathetic to your post I envy you. God has been preparing you for what is coming. I have not experienced what you and Frank have suffered. Oh I have had a few run ins with organized religion here and there. But nothing I would call persecution. That is why I ask God to grant me grace to endure what is coming.
Brother I encourage you check out Hebrews 12:.3. The exhortation is to consider Jesus who has endured such opposition from sinful men so that you may not grow weary and lose heart. Actually the whole book of Hebrews us an encouragement to the persecuted.
Praying God to encourage you brother.
| 2012/6/30 7:11|
| Re: |
If we cannot embrace a God who calls us to die daily then we will not be able to embrace a God who calls us to martyrdom. If we love our life (lifestyle) so much that we seek to save it (as many are doing), then we will lose our life (and we are losing our lifestyle, anyway).
To see if the "Church" is ready for the coming persecution, which means that they must love their enemies and do good to them that persecute them, check first to see if the brethren are loving one another. Check and see if YOU are loving the brethren.
This will be an indication of how the "brethren" will fair during persecution. I don't think it will be a pretty picture in America. Persecution in America will obliterate all the "grey" areas and the "fence sitters". Finally, you will see in black and white who the Christians are and who the religious are. There will be those that are faithful to Jesus Christ and will love their enemies. The others, will rise up to fight their "enemies". And those that rise up will in many cases see their enemies as the True Church. This is what history shows us.
Gone will be the Calvinistic or Arminian platitudes. Gone will be all the theological debates. The true Christians will be known by their love not their theological knowledge or who their favorite preacher is. Those that love their enemies and are willing to die for a God that they cannot see, yet love will be the ones that God uses to spark and endtimes harvest of souls.
Brother will betray brother...
Much of the religious system will be the persecutors of the children of God as has been the case down through the centuries. The religious system will employ the various forces of the world to be their "strong man".
Those who have aligned themselves with the world and love the world, will stay aligned with the worldly church.
Luk 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
Luk 21:13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
It will turn to you for a testimony...
God has always used the persecution of His people as an opportunity to save many others and test our hearts and purify His Bride. Is our life our own? Have we been bought with a price? Can the Lord do what He wants with our lives? Are we willing to submit to His will even if it means having all your possessions taken away, your place in society taken away, being mocked and hated by your "friends" and possibly martyred? Don't be deceived. If you are not submitting to His Lordship daily, dying daily, suffering persecution now (beware when all men speak well of you), then you will probably not want the stronger dose of medicine that is coming.
I encourage everyone to read/watch The Hiding Place to see how a perfectly nice life can turn into hell and notice the metamorphisis that people go through. Notice, what happens to people's hearts (do they turn towards God or away from Him).
"Hell is not so deep that He is not deeper still." Corrie Ten Boom
If you want to overcome?
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. (Jude 1:21)
Historically, does anyone know what happened to Laodicea?
| 2012/6/30 9:14||Profile|
| Re: |
You disagree that Ahab,Nimrod or Ceasar are not types of the Anti Christ?or that Jesus used Lot and Noah as examples of his second coming?surely not!
| 2012/6/30 10:41||Profile|
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What we see happening in Eritrea, Somilia, N. Korea, China, India,
I dont consider these countries part of the western church.
Maybe some of the people could go to these countries and they might be more happy .
I disagree with this "Jonah Attitude" of wanting persecution.
Jesus gave Lot and Noah examples of his coming and Lot was particularly persecuted before they were taken but no Judgement came until they were taken out.
Ahab in particular explains alot about the Anti Christ and shows that he has weak flaws in his character and is twarted by God at every turn,
| 2012/6/30 10:53||Profile|
| Re: |
Pilgrim said, "Brother will betray brother... Much of the religious system will be the persecutors of the children of God as has been the case down through the centuries."
This is an emphasis that has been overlooked in the recent threads on persecution coming to "the western church." The general emphasis has been on persecution coming against the church from outside it.
What about the persecution that comes from "the church" when Christ vindicates His own with His Spirit and Presence?
| 2012/6/30 11:06||Profile|
| Re: Staff|
Brother where do you get this disctinction in the New Testament of the western church and everybody else? According to Eph. the church is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way. The church is an organic reality that spans time and space. The church consist of those believers who have put their faith in Jesus in times past and present. Those are believers from every race, tribe, language, and people as Rev. 7 tells us. So in God's eyes there is no western or eastern or northern or southern church. It is the body. Period.
I mentioned the countries of Eritrea and N. Korea because persecution is a way of life for these saints. For them to take the name of Jesus and follow him is certains imprisonment and even death. Do you think they wish this and delight in this in some morbid way?. No. But they realize this is what being a disciple of Jesus is all about. This is what Jesus taught of those who would follow him. Pick up your cross and follow me. Bonhoffer said when Christ bids a man to come to him. He bids him to come and die.
Brother you seem to have this mistaken notion we are wishing for persecution. Nobody is wishing for it. Nobody is asking for it. But watchman are warning the American church of upcoming persecution. And since American believers gave no history of persecution we need to heed their warnings.
| 2012/6/30 12:01|