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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Obamacare Stands

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ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hi bearmaster,

Quote:

Why I find disturbing in all if this is we are forgegtting where our hope truky lies. We are like the Pharisees who told Pilot we have no king but Caesar. Excuse ne. We have ni salvation but Miit Romney.

Have we forgotten this man is a Mormon? Have we forgotten that Mormonism is a cult? Have we forgotten that Mormonism is rooted in Satanism? Have we forgotten that Mormonism has a tie into the Masonic lodge? Is anybody not aware that Romneyy is dead serious about his faith? Do you think that when elected Romney is going to leave his religion behind when he moves into the white house?

If we believe that that the gospel impacts all areas of our life the Mormons believe the same thing. The Mormons, much like the Moslems, are dead serious about their faith. They are more serious than the evangelicals are.

Someone started a thread on loop hole theology. Looking for ways to justify disobedience to God from the word. I expect that their will be all sorts of threads coming forth justifying a vote for a Mormon. Why not just go on and say we welcome Mormons as brothers and sisters in the Lord. For a vote for Romney will surely convey that.

Has anyone considered that God may have allowed the SC to uphold Obama Care to force us to trust him. To call out to him.

Saints there is only one who can save you and that is Jesus Christ. Anything else is a false god. And you know what happened to Israel when they trusted in false gods.



I don't know the "we" who you are referring to. Such generalizations and assumptions are too far-reaching to make much of an impact or provide true clarity in regards to the rhetorical picture that you have painted.

As believers in Jesus Christ, we obviously know where our hope truly lies. Of course we aware that Mitt Romney is a Mormon. Of course we are also aware that Barack Obama is a Liberation Theology advocate. And, of course, we must trust in God for all things...and that He would lead us into all truth.

However, there are decisions that are left up to us in this world -- even though we are as "free as a bondservant" in Christ Jesus. We make such decisions daily. When I buy milk, bread or gasoline, I decide based upon the store, cost, ingredients and brand. I rarely question whether or not the store (e.g. Safeway, Wal-Mart, Target, etc...) is owned or operated by Christians. I simply try to determine (living in a "pray always" practice) which of the stores/cost/ingredients/brand is best for my family at such a time as this.

If we do have an attitude where we abstain from every Mormon (or unbeliever, atheist, Liberation Theology advocate, Catholic, etc...) out there, we will have quite a difficult time living in this world. Why? This world is literally FILLED with unbelievers or individuals who adhere to a persuasion that differs from our own. To truly and fully abstain from products or company/corporate direction of unbelievers, I suspect that we would get rid of our computers, shoes, clothing, and even our homes. In fact, we would more readily look even more "apart" than the most strict sects of Old Order Amish.

Yet, God did not take us out of this world (physically) when we came to Him. We still live here in creation (for the time being). When we buy a car, we don't interview every employee of Ford Motor Company from the local salesmen to the CEO to the Ford family and try to determine their collective spiritual condition. We simply make a decision whether or not they sell a good vehicle at a good price and whether or not it is better for ourselves and our families than the alternatives at such a time as this.

So, when I decide to vote, I don't pretend to know the heart of a man. I can't say that I know the spiritual condition of ANY believer here. And, when I vote, I am not voting for a pastor. I am simply making a decision about who I think would be the better choice for the next four years -- especially when it comes to policies that such individuals might espouse or legislate.

It shouldn't take something like Obamacare -- or even persecution -- to cause us to cleave to Christ. We should already be walking with God on a daily basis. We should also refrain from making assumptions about the Body of Christ in such a matter too. We can afford to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling without focusing on everyone else's. Yes, we can know a tree by its fruit. However, I don't go "fruit inspecting" through the entire list of Kellogg's employees before I determine whether or not to buy a box of Raisin Bran either.

In terms of Obamacare: We can continue pray for President Obama and all of those who supported the legislation and still disagree with the legislation itself. We can keep our faith in Christ and still oppose the legislation. We can even share our voice (via a vote) in November while simultaneously and wholeheartedly seeking the face of the Lord.


_________________
Christopher

 2012/6/29 16:51Profile









 The best? or the less? [ of two evils]

I would like us to consider that it is possible that America has NEVER had a Christian President. If it were so, it would have had to have been before the civil war, and after the Federalist fathers.

How much unbelief is sufficient to condemn a politician as unworthy? Was the Roman Catholic John F. Kennedy a more noble candidate than the deist Thomas Jefferson?...or how would either stand before the Muslim Barak Hussein Obama, or the Mormon Mitt Romney, dedicated to Salt Lake city?

"And, when I vote, I am not voting for a pastor. I am simply making a decision about who I think would be the better choice for the next four years -- especially when it comes to policies that such individuals might espouse or legislate."...ccchhhrrriiisss.

Conservative values do resist the anti-Christian sentiment that is flooding our world, such as the sodomite ascendancy and the murder of the innocents in abortion, but in themselves they are a-spiritual; just a matter of moral convictions...NOT a Christian Spiritual Conviction.

Some mighty good Presidents revealed themselves to have a sound character sufficient for the job, and some did not. It is a choice for the best, isn't it?...or is it a choice for the less of two evils? I'm not voting. I'll try and go to a prayer meeting, and seek God.

 2012/6/29 18:03









 Re: The best? or the less? [ of two evils]

I remember Israel rejected God for a king and look and look.at the grief and misery that brought them. The Jews rejected their messiah Jesus and w Caesar to be their king. Thirty years later Caesar burned Jerusalem. And the American church is rejecting Crist for a Mormon to deliver them. What will be her grief and misery.

Hmmm. Something about the lessons of history and heeding them. But I doubt many will listen.

Bearmaster.

 2012/6/29 18:33
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re: The best? or the less? [ of two evils]

Hi Brothertom,

I can't really make a determination about whether or not America has ever truly had a Christian president. I am just too aware of the limits to my judgment and wisdom than to make any such assumption or presumption. We can't speak with them or examine ALL of their writings during EVERY part of their lives. Regardless, I am convinced that there have been presidents who held to Christian values in regard to certain policies and principles.

By the way, I think that it is very important that we don't meander into making certain presumptions when there is room for being incorrect regarding such men. For instance, there is no proof that Obama is a Muslim. He denies it. He has said that he is a "Christian" -- even if it is more along the lines of a Liberation Theology advocate. So, we should be careful about voicing accusations that might not be true...or, at least, identify them as being potentially true or false.

As for matters of moral conviction: Morality and immorality can certainly be measured by the faith that we hold while not being indicative of actual faith. There are many "moral" individuals in the world...and there are some "immoral" individuals in some churches. And, yes, there have been some "good" Presidents and some not-so-good. I believe that the "choice" is not in finding a "perfect" man or Christian for the job, but deciding which one (by collective decisions, policy promises and goals) might be the better choice for the next four years in this government of consent.

I understand why some might not vote...even if I personally feel this to be a very important reason to share a voice that will have immediate impact on our families, neighbors and churches. Still, I will likely vote in November. I won't be choosing a pastor...or a perfect candidate. However, I will be going to God in prayer on election day and seek Him before and after the election.


_________________
Christopher

 2012/6/29 19:02Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Quote:

And the American church is rejecting Crist for a Mormon to deliver them. What will be her grief and misery.



I don't know anyone who is rejecting Christ for a Mormon -- including those who might feel inclined to vote for Mitt Romney.

Who do you know who is doing this? Or, are you just voicing a personal concern by claiming that the Body of Christ in America is somehow rejecting Christ because some might choose to vote?


_________________
Christopher

 2012/6/29 19:05Profile









 Re:

Chris why bother to explain. You would not understand.

Bearmaster

 2012/6/29 20:57
Trekker
Member



Joined: 2011/7/29
Posts: 683
northern USA

 Re:

QUOTE: "Ok, bottom line is he basically took a neutral position in a very crafty manner. If he were to have struck it down, he would have made enemies with the Democrats, he did not want to do that, and eventually if the Republicans can take over the Presidency,and the House and Senate, come November they can repeal the tax law. So right now for the folks that know this, it's a win/win situation for all, now come November "if" the Republicans take over,..."==MRBILLPRO




So all i hear you saying here is that Roberts is self-serving, basically. He just didn't want to offend the Dems. And the key word in the rest of your explanation is "IF". IF Romney becomes president, IF the bill gets repealed. And even IF it is repealed, the Dems can always bring the law back again in the future if/when THEY take office, can't they? No, i don't see anything "brilliant" about Robert's vote at all. I think he is a traitor.


On the matter of voting in this fall's election, well i don't intend to vote. I will just stay home and pray, if i can even figure out what to pray for in this election. I refuse to vote for Romney (as much because of his habit of lying as because of his cult involvement) and i refuse to vote for the baby murderer and pro-sodomite Obama. Maybe during this year's election i will just pray that my life ends before things get too much worse in this country (which i know they will). It has been a hard life, from day one, and i have never seen "good times". I truly believe that God has given this country over and if all this (Obama and other ungodly men, homosex, relativism, humanism, etc) is what they want then this is what He is going to give them.

 2012/6/29 23:15Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Quote:

Chris why bother to explain. You would not understand.



Why would you even suggest such a thing, brother? You made a blanket allegation about the American church and those who might choose to vote in the next election. Then, when asked for clarity, you told me that I would not understand.

Brother, we must be careful about making such statements. If we choose to voice allegations like this in a public forum, then we must be willing to respond to any request for clarity.

It might help to consider just how it feels if someone were to use similar rhetoric toward those who don't feel the same as others do.

What if someone implied that those who believe as you do (in regard to the election) were somehow less spiritual, spiritually out-of-touch or in obvious error...and, when asked for clarity, they stated that such individuals "wouldn't understand?" Do you see how such words could be perceived as condescending on a forum such as this?

This isn't just true of things like Obamacare or elections. We all must pray carefully before we post and contemplate whether our words might contain pride, selfishness or even whether they produce life or death. Sometimes, our views change over time as the Lord leads us into maturity. However, words posted on a public forum have a tendency to live on long after they are posted.

We are not the people that we were just a few years ago. We have each grown in our relationship and knowledge of the Lord and His Word. Yet, we just can't go back and edit those words. Thus, when we make strongly-worded statements or generalizations, we must do so knowing that they might echo for many years to come...and by eyes of individuals that we may never meet.

We can always "agree to disagree" (as the old adage says). However, there is a danger in considering others of somehow forsaking Christ simply because they have a different conclusion than the one that we adhere to in non-essential matters.


_________________
Christopher

 2012/6/29 23:23Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Quote:
Have we forgotten this man is a Mormon? Have we forgotten that Mormonism is a cult? Have we forgotten that Mormonism is rooted in Satanism?



Well said.


_________________
Christiaan

 2012/6/30 0:20Profile
Trekker
Member



Joined: 2011/7/29
Posts: 683
northern USA

 Re:

QUOTE: " And the American church is rejecting Crist for a Mormon to deliver them. What will be her grief and misery."==BEARMASTER




This is just what i am thinking(not REJECTING Christ, but failing to trust Him or look to HIM instead). Now after this Obamacare beast has been passed into law, Conservatives and a few Independents are going to feel more compelled than ever to vote for Romney. What if the best thing to do is to NOT vote at all, and just stay home and pray for the country? Personally, i am NOT planning to vote.I won't vote for a man of low character and low integrity, regardless of religion, and that is what i believe both candidates to be.

It may interest some to know that political analysts are saying that Romney is never going to repeal Obamacare like everyone thinks (and like he has promised to) because he himself passed a similar bill in his own state of Mass.that also has an individual MANDATE. In fact, it was Romney who showed it could be done!!And for him to repeal it would put millions of elderly and others back into poverty and without their medications,etc.

Frankly, i don't have a problem with the bill i guess EXCEPT for the individual MANDATE.I hate anything where the government FORCES me to BUY anything.They do NOT have that right.EVER. I am hoping/thinking that if Romney gets into office that he and others will do some tweaking, but i certainly am not going to vote for the man. I am just going to stay home and pray. GOD RULES.

P.S. There are those who are saying that Justice John Roberts was just making a "brilliant" move and setting things up for a bigger win of some kind down the road, and that he is supposedly being very clever. And they think he handed Romney a win. I don't know bout that. Unless Roberts want to be his running mate or something.Defeating this bill would have made Obama look weak by giving him a huge loss for his presidency, and THAT would have helped Romney fine.

Also, it may interest you to know that according to wikipedia, the very Catholic John Roberts once did pro bono work for gay rights advocates while he worked in private practice for Hogan & Hartson lawfirm, including preparing arguments for the 1996 case "Romer vs. Evans which was described as "the movement's most important legal victory". So is he really a staunch Conservative??



 2012/7/1 11:32Profile





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