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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Christians "stoned" at Dearborn, Michigan

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 Re:

Quote:
The fact that a group of Arab people in America think that they can hurl things at people to get rid of them and the cops do nothing sends a stong message to them that they can do what they want.

Maybe.

This group did not have a permit to go in there. There were 5 Christian outlets in that festival and 2 Muslim outlets that all went through the legal requirements according to the law to set up shop during the festival. Each one proselyting the other.

Acts 17 had no permit. They came in looking for protection from the law to do what they wanted to do in a Festival that is governed by the laws of the city of Dearborn. There is a mixed feeling in this so called Christian group. They seem to have a hatred for Muslims and yet believe in Jesus Christ.

I think they got what they deserved. They had every right to be there as a participant of the festivities, but to do what they did, they had no right. They kept demanding their constitutional right but they had none within that festival because they had every opportunity to obtain a permit to open a kiosk.

We have the same thing here. The city is not opposed to an organized street preaching team. You have to get a permit to preach in the square. Any individual can preach anyplace as long as he is not causing a disturbance. If news cameras are present then it would be labeled a production and it would require a permit.

 2012/6/30 10:08









 Re:

Even if that group had their "Permit" it would not have mattered to the mob.

They got what they deserved? wow.. please be carefull.

 2012/6/30 10:14









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Quote:
They got what they deserved? wow.. please be careful.

What would you have done if a group of people came into your home and planted their feet down and demanded that they have every right under the constitution to be in your home, what would you do?

If they didn't leave you'd call the police.

The police arrive, and now they are fighting with the police. Your unsaved neighbours and relatives get involved Now there is crowd of people in your home trying to get these people out. Your voice, and the police are drowned out by the mob that think they are doing you a favour. They now are using force. The police step back, it doesn't look good but in the end you've reclaimed your home and go back to resume your living.

Do you think those that entered your home and was ousted by whatever means possible, do you think that they got what they deserved?

A YES or a NO is all that is needed.

 2012/6/30 10:43









 Re:

Quote:
What would you have done if a group of people came into your home and planted their feet down and demanded that they have every right under the constitution to be in your home, what would you do?



The analogy you present is not the same. Therefore in no way could I give a yes or no answer.

Secondly a Republic functions under the rule of law. The laws of nature and of natures God.

A mob is not allowed to break the law and physcially assault people.

In regards to permits that is a lower ordinance issue and they were going to be "cited" if they did not leave.

As I have said in previous post I have sent email to Ruben with my concerns of his approach on certain things.

Now I have dealt with police over the years in evangelism. So I am no stranger to this. I have also dealt with large crowds both in ministry as well as the military. So I am no stranger to the dynamics of this as well.

edit for spelling


 2012/6/30 11:01









 Re:

I think what this group has done is destroyed an opportunity to graciously get the gospel out to Moslems. They have also brought reproach upon the name of Christ. And as one poster has said destroyed the viability of credible street preachers. In this the enemy has won.

I am sure there would ave been more effective ways of lovingly sharing Christ at this festival than using invectives and a pig head. Like how about setting up a booth and giving out bottles of water to the Moslems. Telling this is offered in love of Jesus. Asking if you can pray for them. The Moslems are willing to let you pray over them. Particularly if you bless them. And yes in Jesus name. I suggest such an approach will be far more effective in reaching Moslems with the gospel.

I have only had the blessed opportunity to share Christ with two Moslems in my walk with Jesus. Only God knows if they are truly saved. But there was an open heart for them to listen. If I had gone with a pig head. I don't think I would gave had opportunity to plant a gospel seed.

Brother Andrew has said ISLAM is I Sincerely Love All Moslens.

Bear.

 2012/6/30 11:12









 Re: Close to Blasphemy

"They seem to have a hatred for Muslims and yet believe in Jesus Christ.

I think they got what they deserved. "...Approved

I do too, and maybe not enough of what they deserved. Rueben Israel was interviewed by several major National News Agencies, and he milked it all as the persecuted Righteous Marytr.

Remember that Dearborne IS Detroit, and Detroit is the fulcrum for Muslim Dominance in America.
http://www.examiner.com/sharia-law-in-detroit
Some call it the Constitutional Alamo of America.

Islamicists there study the Constitution to guarantee their right for Sharia law to trump American Law as their religious freedom, and they have made great gains for Allah in this respect. In America, it is the front lines in the War for Allah.

He also stated, at least on Facebook, his immediate plans to return to other Muslim venues, and "preach" more. This event fueled his ambition to be seen as the brave heroic martyr; a veritable Paul the Apostle figure standing for the fiery gospel; [ of Ham, evidently..]

Otherwise, this is what he seeks. His conflict in his mind elevates himself above all other Preachers; The Persecuted Apostle! He wants more! [and maybe a scar or two. ] He wants to earn it, so I say he deserves it. He worked hard for it.

There is a Biblical precedent, that Mr. Rueben may not have considered, though.

"Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists took it upon themselves to call the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, “We exorcise you by the Jesus whom Paul preaches.”

Also there were seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, who did so.
And the evil spirit answered and said, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?”

...and they were abused.

Preaching in the face of the wicked violent is fine, if you are led to , but not without holiness and the power of Christ. Mr. Rueben may soon experience the consequences of his foolishness.

He is defaming the Name and wiping it in dung, as he hisses through the swines head an Ambassador of the Holy One. It may come from the infidel, but it will be sent by God; for it is close to blasphemy.



EDIT:...Here is another view that proves the police stepped in many times to protect them, and displays the carnality of the preaching...

http://www.christandpopculture.com/elsewhere/muslims-stoning-christians-in-michigan-not-quite/

 2012/6/30 11:19
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2035
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

thingsabove and ginnyrose, great points about the need for us to stand up and say NO to sin.

Quote:
Does anyone know much about this group?

My fear is that we'll be seeing more of this type tactic to turn people against Christians completely, besides making things dangerous for all evangelists.

Do we know if these thug looking guys are actually Christians?
Stephen didn't "cuss" when he was being stoned.(Jesus-is-GOD)



I have been seeing and hearing quite a bit about this group over the past few years. They are known for calling people names and preaching in a hateful, condemning way, without showing compassion for the souls they preach to.

They hardly ever quote Scripture but mostly yell things such as "shame on you, you homo, sinner", etc. In their preaching they graphically decribe certain sins such as homosexuality.

To me they are similar to Westboro. They hold to KJV-only and seem cultish if you ask me. I cannot say for sure whether or not they are saved but I can say they bear much bad fruit.

I'm all for preaching hard against sin in the open air such as John the Baptist did. But this group preaches in the flesh and not in the Spirit and you can tell the difference if you use discernment.

I truly believe we need more Spirit-filled believers to Go, Stand, and Speak(Acts 5:20), so that people can see the difference between carnal and Spirit-filled street preaching. Sadly, these guys have more boldness and dedication for getting their message out than many Christians today. And that is why many people only see this kind of example and are turned off.


_________________
Oracio

 2012/6/30 11:30Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I'm all for preaching hard against sin in the open air such as John the Baptist did. But this group preaches in the flesh and not in the Spirit and you can tell the difference if you use discernment.

I truly believe we need more Spirit-filled believers to Go, Stand, and Speak(Acts 5:20), so that people can see the difference between carnal and Spirit-filled street preaching. Sadly, these guys have more boldness and dedication for getting their message out than many Christians today. And that is why many people only see this kind of example and are turned off.



Well said, well balanced!

Also brothertom good points concerning sharia law etc.


Edit add, I would also ask that since many here talk of blessing and praying for your enemies that you would lift up this group as well as westboro that they would soften and change their approach for the glory of God!


 2012/6/30 11:41









 The cost.

Here is another story of a preacher confronting the Muslim.

Jeddah (AsiaNews/Agencies)

Eyob Mussie, a Christian refugee in Saudi Arabia, was told that he would be forcibly repatriated to Eritrea where he could be jailed and sentenced to death.

Mussie was arrested on 12 February in front of a mosque in Jeddah, the kingdom’s second largest city. He had gone there to talk to Muslims about Christianity.

He was charged with proselytising, which in Saudi Arabia can entail the death penalty.

Saudi authorities initially viewed Eyob as a mental case. A medical test found instead that he was fit to stand trial. He was eventually moved to Briman Prison, a high security prison. However, instead of sentencing to death, the authorities decided to send him back to Eritrea.

In Eritrea, some 3,000 Christians are currently in prison without charges. Some have been held in isolation for years.

The probability that Eyob Mussie would receive the same treatment, including the possibility of the death penalty is very high...................

Perhaps Rueben Israel loves the Muslim enough to travel to Saudi Arabia and convert many to faith in Jesus?; probably not, I suppose. Some do, at the peril of death.


 2012/6/30 12:00









 Re:


Thank you for this link -
http://www.christandpopculture.com/elsewhere/muslims-stoning-christians-in-michigan-not-quite/

Thank you for your words, Oracio.


Regardless of what unsaved people do or believe - there is no excuse for the Deceptive news these people tried to put out about what happened that day and there's No Excuse for what they said and did to "sinners".

Find this behavior in the New Testament - cussing, lying, editing films, vile displays - all in The Name of Christ?

Don't talk about the Muslims on this thread - talk about what these men did to destroy the witness of CHRIST HIMSELF and any chances of any UNSAVED person getting "reached by The Gospel" that day.

The danger now to any good street preacher because of these hate-filled charlatans.


Unsaved people are unsaved people - but those that claim HIS NAME and claim to represent HIM - are those that THE CHURCH ARE TOLD TO JUDGE!


WE'RE NOT TO 'HATE' ANYONE!


Anyone that destroys the witness of The Gospel before the unsaved needs to be publically exposed and strongly rebuked and prayed against!


This Should make us angry. It's HIS Image that they dragged through the mud in front of the whole internet world now --- before those that Desperately NEED HIM.


 2012/6/30 12:29





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