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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : King Solomon=666 ?

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Trekker
Member



Joined: 2011/7/29
Posts: 683
northern USA

 Re:

QUOTE: "They assumed that the Pope was Antichrist. He is the head of the Roman or Latin church, as Latin is the language of that church and the Vulgate the Latin version of the Bible."==BLAYNE




Blayne, i always thought so too, but it is clear that THE Antichrist will/MUST be a JEW. So the only way he can be BOTH a Jew AND a pope is if the Vatican becomes so WED to the Jewish nation/Israel that a JEWISH POPE is confirmed.
We currently have a GERMAN pope. So this might be something to watch for. That is one reason i posted another article the other day about Israel having given the Vatican control over a Christian site in Jerusalem or Israel; the Roman church is showing an increasing amount of influence on the government over there and already has control over most if not all "Christian" sites. Many "Jews" (at least in name) also marry Catholics.

 2012/6/28 3:30Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5380
NC, USA

 Re:

Trekker wrote:

"Why do you say that? There are and have always been MANY anti-Christs. But THEE ANtichrist will rule the entire world, and cause ALL both slave and free, rich and poor, to take the mark and bow down to the image of the beast. So this does not fit Nero, as wicked and satanic as he was. It ALMOST fit Hitler but not quite. Also, The Antichrist will sit upon the throne of the final temple, which hasn't even been built yet. He will be worse than Hitler.

There is also the Great Tribulation, which has not even occurred yet, and the reason we know that is that it will surpass anything that has ever been or ever will be in terms of it's torments and sufferings, etc."
_____________________

For your own edification, you might want to expand your eschatological horizons.

I am currently reading a very good commentary by Steve Gregg called "Revelation: 4 views."

It goes through each verse in Revelation and in column format summarizes how the primary commentators supporting each view (historist, preterist, futurist, spiritual) explain each passage.

It is very interesting to see it laid out in side by side column format because it really helps to compare the views and decide for yourself which is best interpreting scripture.

We bring many many presuppostions to our Bible reading based on what we have been taught or raised with. I didn't even realize there WERE alternative views to the "Left Behind" theology until a few years back.


_________________
Todd

 2012/6/28 10:54Profile









 Re:

And then some say the last Mahdi out of Iran will be the antichrust. The president of Iran is pushing this. If the abtichrist is a Moslem it would make sense. The Moslems are known to behead Christians. Many saints will be beheaded in the future.

Bearmaster.

 2012/6/28 11:19
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Quote:
but it is clear that THE Antichrist will/MUST be a JEW.



Brother... It is NOT clear via scripture. If it is, please quote chapter and verse/s where SCRIPTURE states that the anti-Christ is a Jew.

Anything other then that is bearing false witness.


_________________
Christiaan

 2012/6/28 11:34Profile
EverestoSama
Member



Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


 Re:

Quote:
And then some say the last Mahdi out of Iran will be the antichrust. The president of Iran is pushing this. If the abtichrist is a Moslem it would make sense. The Moslems are known to behead Christians. Many saints will be beheaded in the future.



The beheading part is quite true, though I highly doubt any Jew will accept a Muslim as their Messiah. And a Muslim deceiving even the elect? That seems a bit of a stretch in my opinion. Satan seems far more clever than that.

 2012/6/28 11:59Profile
EverestoSama
Member



Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


 Re:

Quote:
It goes through each verse in Revelation and in column format summarizes how the primary commentators supporting each view (historist, preterist, futurist, spiritual) explain each passage.



The first century Jewish mind held all four views (historist, preterist, futurist, spiritual) simultaneously. Prophecy from a Jewish perspective won't even begin to make sense unless one can do the same.

A Jewish God, with a Jewish religion, in a Jewish country, and a Jewish Messiah with Jewish apostles speaking to a Jewish audience. It's a valuable study to see how these things would have come across from first century Jews to first century Jews.

 2012/6/28 12:01Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7471
Mississippi

 Re:

QUOTE:
______________________________________________________________

And a Muslim deceiving even the elect? That seems a bit of a stretch in my opinion. Satan seems far more clever than that.
______________________________________________________________

I wish I could understand this to be true - it would be nice to be able to do so and that it would be for real. But I have seen in the last 50 years such a degradation in beliefs among Christians it defies common sense. Have you ever heard of Chrislam?

From my own personal study of Revelation I am coming to the conclusion that Muslims will be very much involved in the end-times. Given their ruthless methods of exterminating their distractors they would fit the bill. {{{Shudder}}} Time will tell.


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2012/6/28 12:17Profile









 Re: The fifth and the eighth king

Quote:
There are and have always been MANY anti-Christs. But THEE ANtichrist will rule the entire world, and cause ALL both slave and free, rich and poor, to take the mark and bow down to the image of the beast. So this does not fit Nero, as wicked and satanic as he was. It ALMOST fit Hitler but not quite. Also, The Antichrist will sit upon the throne of the final temple, which hasn't even been built yet. He will be worse than Hitler.





Quote:
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and   go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast that he was and is not and will come. Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sits, and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while. The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction. The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour. These have one purpose, and they give their power and authority to the beast. (Rev 17:8-13)



The above passage, from Revelations, makes several facts certain and not therefore subject to interpretation. Namely, that the beast which was shown to John was at the time of John in the abyss. In other words he had already existed although at the time of the vision he was dead. Also that he was one of seven and is also an eight. At the time of the vision five of the seven had already fallen (died), one was reigning and one was yet to reign. This means that the beast was the fifth of the seven. All of the seven are kings hence why they are said to reign. The fifth kind is the one who at the beginning of the passage is described as “was” “is not” and “is about to “come out of the abyss”. Which means he was a king who had lived, died, gone to the abyss and in coming up out of the abyss to live again, he becomes an eight king. The eight king is the beast.

It seems to me that unless one can accept the chronology of events for these seven kings it is impossible to make sense of the fact that the beast is also the eighth king. The one who reigns in Jerusalem in the years allotted for his reign is both the fifth king and the eighth king. One man yet he has been given two expressions of life. This is not reincarnation but resuscitation. Just as a body was prepared for our Lord Jesus, in a like counterfeit this fifth king is reanimated into the political and religious man who is accepted as Messiah in Jerusalem after he receives the mortal blow from the sword which is wielded against him and outwardly produces death. The man who is resuscitated from this event is none other than the fifth king come up out of the abyss and appearing therefore as the eighth king. The effect to everyone who witnesses these events will be nothing short of a seeming resurrection from the dead. Outwardly and visibly he is the same man who was killed, but inwardly he is the eighth king. This is a counterfeit resurrection making certain his influence to murder on a scale surpassing anything which has gone before. If this seems improbable it is worth noting that it is at this precise time that the idol is set up in the temple and the false prophet is given Satan’s power thereby causing the idol to speak.

Quote:
Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke as a dragon. He exercises all the authority of the first beast   in his presence. And he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed. He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men. And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform   in the presence of beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who *had the wound of the sword and has come to life. And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed. (Rev 13:11-15)




All these things are permitted by God Himself. So we should not spend our time worrying about them. We should focus on Jesus Himself Whose appearing is more precious by far. May the Lord bless us and keep us in peace. Amen.

 2012/6/28 12:50
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5380
NC, USA

 Re:

John directed his prophecy to a Church that was undergoing intense persecution.

There are multiple statements like "must shortly come to pass" and "are about to take place" and "the time is at hand."

What good would it do those early readers of the epistle if it was talking about muslims (or any other power) taking over the world in the 21st century?

The futurist approach to intepreting Revelation is that everything after Ch 3 has not yet taken place.

Is it not possible that the letter was REALLY intended for those early believers and was REALLY meant to encourage THEM in their time of trouble?

In regard to 666, John said to his readers (those actual believers who receieved his letter) that with wisdom and understanding they could discover the number of the Beast and the number of his name. If, however, the Beast was not around in their day, John would have been giving them false information.

I am not saying that some of Revelation is not referring to future events (the second coming, e.g.). But it seems that based on its own language indicating a "soon" fulfillment that we should take those comments plainly, as would have the early believers to whom the book was addressed.

[edit]


_________________
Todd

 2012/6/28 12:54Profile
Trekker
Member



Joined: 2011/7/29
Posts: 683
northern USA

 Re:

QUOTE: "We bring many many presuppostions to our Bible reading based on what we have been taught or raised with. I didn't even realize there WERE alternative views to the "Left Behind" theology until a few years back."==TMK



I never once believed the Left Behind rubbish. Totally unscriptural. And just look at the man who wrote it, and that will tell you all you need to know (Tim LaHaye). Doesn't take all that much discernment.

 2012/6/29 23:55Profile





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