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Solomon101
Member



Joined: 2008/4/1
Posts: 530
America's Heartand

 Re: The devil has real power, but we have a will and the Truth. I AM..

@ Blayne

Brother, that last post of yours was well said!

The rise of Universalism is indeed largely a result of the misrepresentation of Christ and The Father by those who claim to follow Him.

God is so often presented as if He were a schizophrenic, bi polar, all powerful diety by much, if not the majority, of the "church" world!

He has been presented as if he was obviously a kingdom, and King, divided against Himself. The beliefs that God is "sovereign" ,in the sense of believing He "orchestrates" all things on the earth, only strengthens the misconception.

If, for example, a person is struck with sickness many then believe God did it. Well... if it is the will of God for you to be sick then a person should quit praying to get well as it would take them out of sickness.. and therefore out of the will of God. For that matter would it not be "sin" to go to a doctor and seek relief as getting well would take you out of God's will... if He was actually the one striking with sickness as His will.

Agreed Blayne. No wonder the world likes the attraction of Universalism. It somehow brings "stability" to an inaccurate view of God that exists simply because those who claim to follow Him have muddied the world with it.

Full disclosure... I DO NOT personally adhere to any element of the "Universalism" being discussed in the thread. I just see how others are drawn because of the errors those in the church present as their views of God.

Blessings!

 2012/6/25 13:07Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Brother Kelly thank you for posting this and for posting on SI! I appreciate your ministry to others in all your writings. There are more books being written and more preachers being led to this which I believe is a deception of the devil for those not staying rooted in the Word of Christ.

Blayne, I agree somewhat with your post because many Christians are terribly misrepresenting Jesus Christ and blame God for all the horrible things happening in the world.

Good insight also Solomon101!

Brothertom, I really appreciated your post in the way you followed up with Kelly and brought some more enlightenment to what is happening today with this hellish doctrine of deception.

There are more books coming out along with preachers claiming that they have the revelation on God’s love and that nobody will eventually have to spend eternity in hell. Oh how people love to hear this so they don’t have to take the commandments of Jesus so seriously. They don’t have to worry about being responsible with the gospel message nor do they have to worry about their own besetting sin.

I agree with Kelly and Brothertom that this doctrine is dangerous and devilish, straight from the pits of hell, as an all out onslaught from the great enemy, Satan himself, of the Great Christ and His wondrous redeeming cross, and the power of His blood as the only atonement for the sin of mankind.

Jesus agonized in prayer until his sweat became as great drops of blood as he poured out his soul in the garden of Gethsemane, praying unto his Father saying “if it be possible let this cup pass from me but nevertheless not as I will but thy will be done”. There is no other way; and God will not let any thief or robber in heaven. There will be nobody in heaven that bypassed the cross of Jesus Christ. Everybody who refused the cross of Jesus Christ and who also taught others that there is another way instead of Jesus Christ and His redemption will be in hell. The bible teaches that hell was created for the devil and his angels and all those who reject Jesus and His love and redemption for them will be indwelt by the devil and will be in hell because they listened and followed the devil instead of Jesus Christ.

But the devil has blinded multitudes from the glorious good news of salvation; and God’s love and plan for all those who would only believe in the redemption of Jesus Christ. Jesus is the only hope for lost humanity. He is the way, the truth, and the life and the only way to the Father in heaven. Jesus says “that not everyone who says Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven but only he who does the will of my Father which is in heaven”. If we do not allow Jesus to save us and rule over us before this life is over then hell will be our ruin. God is not going to allow sin in heaven and neither will there be any rebels there either. If anybody thinks that God almighty is going to allow anybody in heaven that bypassed His Son and His sacrificed for them then they have been deceived by the devil. The bible says plainly that there is no other way to be saved. There is none other name under heaven given unto men whereby we must be saved. The devil hates the name of Jesus and what he did for God’s creation; and wants to keep people in darkness. He wants to keep people blinded from the truth that is in Jesus.” For God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have ever lasting life”. “He that believes on the Son hath everlasting life: but he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him”(John 3:16,36).

 2012/6/25 13:24Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5380
NC, USA

 Re:

rbanks said: "The bible says plainly that there is no other way to be saved. There is none other name under heaven given unto men whereby we must be saved."

No evangelical proponent of universal reconciliation that I am aware of would disagree with this statement.

Brothertom wrote: "Jesus died in vain if Salvation could come from any other source."

Again I know of no evangelical proponent of UR that would disgree with this statement. In fact they would wholeheartedly agree!


_________________
Todd

 2012/6/25 15:28Profile









 Re: Contending against the heretical doctrine of Universalism

Quote:
I had a close friend do the same, and it started with him on an Internet web site. He kept this secret to everyone, until it seemed to completely devour him. One day, he worked up the courage, or the pride, to reveal it to me; I do not know. (Brother Tom)



The idea that your former friend had worked up the courage or the pride to declare his new found belief is rather sobering Tom. To be in such a state of conviction over something clearly contrary to the truth could only be courageous if it were sincerely held. But if a lie is believed contrary to one’s own conscience then it is a matter of pride. The deceived person would have to go against their own conscience not once but many times in order to come to such a condition. The resulting knowledge is often held in a kind of elite way, as though only a few were in on it. Historically there have been Universalists as ginnyrose pointed out. Today more and more people are willing to lay the claim at the feet of others openly. Robert Bell has just concluded that very thing. He influences numbers of young people with a singular focus. It is truly fearful.

Quote:
Do you see what I'm meaning to say?
Our preachers confess the lie that God does works of the devil. Unbelievable! We have preachers saying that God kills and revives. That He tramples on your life one day while lifting you up the next. We have Christians claiming that it pleases God to give children birth deformities; to have children born deaf and blind; it supposedly glorifies His name. We Christians are saying that it is God who pays the wages of sin and death. (blayne)



I hadn’t given a thought to the motive of those who believe or accept the Universalist central tenet. But I guess it must be true that some people may well have a view of God which is blasphemous. On the other hand brother blayne it is impossible to reconcile the belief in a sovereign God Who holds the universe in His hands, with a God who doesn’t have the authority to resist evil and limit its effect and working. In Egypt it is God who sent the destroyer to kill the first born of every family. And God Who commands the way of escape. The blood on the door lintel by an act of obedience was the measure of escape. The obedience was a lamb slain. This directly parallels the Gospel of Christ. I feel sure that I must be ignorant of what is actually being preached in North America if it is as you say. Job shows another example and a different insight as to how evil comes on men’s lives. Satan tempted God and God must in His righteousness must show the wicked one that Job was in reality faithful. Job truly loved God.. Satan is both the accuser of the brethren as well as an instrument of suffering. It cannot be escaped from. God is sovereign over all. Satan cannot do as he pleases.

Quote:
There are more books coming out along with preachers claiming that they have the revelation on God’s love and that nobody will eventually have to spend eternity in hell.



Brother rbanks this is the reality. There are more and more books being published claiming deeper revelation as to the measure of God’s love. Those who teach Universalism must in the end come to their beliefs themselves first. If so it must be essential to ask the question how they came to those beliefs. It is worth saying that it is by attending as closely as possible to the Scriptures as they can. Only in the end of their presentation does they twist come in. For this reason this deception cannot be intellectualised. If it is then some by just reading the books will find themselves being drawn irresistibly into the snare. We must determine to read Scripture and have a mind to believe what is actually real from God’s own position. If we see God from our own view point we will come to all manner of conclusions which in the end actually deny God Himself, because they deny His Righteous character as well as His great Love for men. For those who do not believe in God this lie will make the sacrifice of Christ meaningless and thus having unknowingly rejected Christ crucified for sin, it will result in many believing they are faithful children, because they have believed in God’s love. Not in Christ Himself. How will they resist the day in which they live if they deny Christ, Who alone is able to keep them? They will end up believing the most blasphemous lie in the universe. A man standing in the Holy Place declaring himself to be God, changing times and seasons and deceiving many. Those who do believe in Christ crucified for sin will be hated for rejecting the Man of Sin by those very same people who say they believe in God’s love. Their claim will be “we are serving God”.

 2012/6/25 15:34
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Quote:

Brother rbanks this is the reality. There are more and more books being published claiming deeper revelation as to the measure of God’s love. Those who teach Universalism must in the end come to their beliefs themselves first. If so it must be essential to ask the question how they came to those beliefs. It is worth saying that it is by attending as closely as possible to the Scriptures as they can. Only in the end of their presentation does they twist come in. For this reason this deception cannot be intellectualised. If it is then some by just reading the books will find themselves being drawn irresistibly into the snare. We must determine to read Scripture and have a mind to believe what is actually real from God’s own position. If we see God from our own view point we will come to all manner of conclusions which in the end actually deny God Himself, because they deny His Righteous character as well as His great Love for men. For those who do not believe in God this lie will make the sacrifice of Christ meaningless and thus having unknowingly rejected Christ crucified for sin, it will result in many believing they are faithful children, because they have believed in God’s love. Not in Christ Himself. How will they resist the day in which they live if they deny Christ, Who alone is able to keep them? They will end up believing the most blasphemous lie in the universe. A man standing in the Holy Place declaring himself to be God, changing times and seasons and deceiving many. Those who do believe in Christ crucified for sin will be hated for rejecting the Man of Sin by those very same people who say they believe in God’s love. Their claim will be “we are serving God”.



This is very interesting and enlightening brother Andrew! It led me to think about what the apostle John said in:

1 John 2:24-29 (KJV)
24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.


Notice how he said that our responsibility was to remain in the teaching we heard from the beginning and how doing this we will continue in the Son and in the Father. The promise of eternal life is promised to us by remaining in the Son. The anointing that we have received from Him abides in us and we don’t need any man to teach us but the anointing teaches us of all things and is truth. The anointing teaches us how to abide in Him and what is of Him.

This causes me to think about how they got this revelation on God’s love when it has elevated them to a so called higher revelation than the love of God that compelled Jesus to be crucified for the sins of the world to whosoever that believeth. For one to elevate an understanding of God’s love above Jesus and His original apostles who have stated that it was necessary for all to repent and believe or they would perish is to be deceived. Why did Paul suffer so much to try to get people to believe if he knew that somehow God’s love was going to get them in heaven even if they didn’t repent and believe?

 2012/6/25 17:29Profile









 Re: Is God too cruel?

"Jesus agonized in prayer until his sweat became as great drops of blood as he poured out his soul in the garden of Gethsemane, praying unto his Father saying “if it be possible let this cup pass from me but nevertheless not as I will but thy will be done”.

" There is no other way; and God will not let any thief or robber in heaven. There will be nobody in heaven that bypassed the cross of Jesus Christ. Everybody who refused the cross of Jesus Christ and who also taught others that there is another way instead of Jesus Christ and His redemption will be in hell." RBanks.

Amen. I believe it as a sign of falling away; of having attained to a seared conscience. The logical, analytical deduction seems to hinge on there being an ETERNAL HELL. By twisting the scriptures to deduce a temporal Hell, a LIMITED Judgment, then their logic shifts to emerging from the fire, with time left, as a saved, but severely punished child of God, for after all, God couldn't be that cruel.

Others twist the scripture into Annihilationism; a vaporizing of the soul.

"This reminds us that Seventh-day Adventism (SDA) denies many biblical doctrines. According to Adventist doctrine, for example, unsaved men do not go to Hell when they die; they merely sleep in the grave awaiting the resurrection. And when the unsaved are finally cast into Hell after the judgment, they are not tormented forever but are annihilated."; formed by [Ellen G. White]..Founder
wayoflife.org

This is how cults are formed. The Scripture is twisted and denied partially, or completely. The leader of Three Angels Broadcasting, the TV broadcast arm of the Adventists, Danny Shelton,lives in the county here in Southern Illinois. I have watched him preach many times.

His great deduction is; "THE PUNISHMENT FITS THE CRIME!"..meaning that in his mind, God would never...never...create ETERNAL fire...it is just too cruel; God is much too merciful and He isn't a sadist.

Obviously, the Word of God is irrelevant; It is his ideas and emotions that count; HUMAN ideas and emotions about God.

What then happens is the cancer of doubt is planted; "Has God !!!....REALLY!!!.... said?"

"Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”

When we cast away the WORD, the Bible as our anchor of our thinking, we cast away the Map of our soul, and become gods unto ourselves, and then comes the destruction of our faith. Everything becomes a matter of what is right in our own eyes, and the FALLING AWAY begins...and soon after, blasphemy.

The blood of Jesus becomes arbitrary, or seemingly just the result of the acts of a righteous , good intended man. Then, it doesn't matter, because everyone will be saved anyhow, or to some, the bad will just be vaporized.

It makes me a little sick to write this. Satan is the most subtle of all beasts, and desires you in there with Him...THE ETERNAL LAKE OF FIRE!..which he so richly deserves, and those who follow him after their own way.



 2012/6/27 10:35





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