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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : "Study shows those who believe in heaven commit more crimes"

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ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7449
Mississippi

 Re:

After reading the comments here, I checked out the article myself.

All I can say is that it describes what is true here in the Bible Belt of the USA, like it or not. And like it or not, it describes those given to Calvinism who think they can sin with no fear of eternal consequences because God, after all, has forgiven all their sins, both past and present. Granted, not all Calvinists behave this way, but far too many do.

Most of my clients at the Crises Pregnancy Center were single professing Christians. They knew they did wrong, they sinned. Many did not feel God would send them to hell because they believed themselves to be too good for it. Others believed, that yes, they will end up there but had no motivation to change.

One thing this article did not say is what all they considered to be criminal. If they lump Christians stance against perversion with stealing, murder, etc it should give one pause for concern. On the other hand if so-called Christians do engage in criminal behaviors this is tragic. (Corrupt southern politicians are notorious for using God, prayers in their rhetoric...and since it sounds good, people are blinded to the realities that go on behind closed doors. Yup, Calvinism Missippi style.)

EDITED: It is well-known here in the states of some radical preachers and his family who engage is protests against what they perceive as anti-American...It embarrasses many devout Christians, provides fuel for the atheists or humanists to declare Christianity dangerous...

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2012/6/24 9:23Profile
Trekker
Member



Joined: 2011/7/29
Posts: 683
northern USA

 Re:

QUOTE: " This type thing is at the "tip of the iceberg on the horizon" stage. There's a spiritual storm like a train just starting to leave the station and build steam. That baby is gonna get flying at top speed deceptively before you even realize it. "All aboard" Is the call I hear in my Spirit."==JEFFMAR




Yes, i hear the train coming too. Have for a long time. Back in the 90s already, when i first turned to Christ. And you are right about the "deceptively" too. AND i think you will discover that most of the people in the churches will be among your greatest enemies or among the most untrustworthy.
Lately i think that it is better to build my friends from among the sinners.

 2012/6/24 11:22Profile
Trekker
Member



Joined: 2011/7/29
Posts: 683
northern USA

 Re:

QUOTE: "I agree with this article, this is a clear proof that if you evangelize people based on Heaven and Hell destination you will only lead them to a life of Crime.
The salvation of New Covenant is not only a change in destination from Heaven to hell."==SREE



Say wwwwwwwwhat?

 2012/6/24 11:25Profile









 sATAN KNOWS THERE IS A HEAVEN...[ did he inspire this article?]

Have you ever considered that Satan, and every foul demon spirit ever created has a firm and sound belief in Heaven?

" You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!"...James 2

They were born there....created by the One that would later hang upon the tree to defeat them and save us. They also were cast down below:
“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.......also..

"And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!"

Since the first man born, there has been the idea of a Heaven and a Hell; a reward and a punishment. This man, Cain, found out the hard way.

The article itself seemed childish and pointless; contrived. What does it matter if multitudes of souls may comment on Eternity. Without faith, it is impossible to please God, or know anything about His ways, or His Eternities. I could go through a large crowd on any given day, and asked them if they liked peanuts.

Then, I could establish a statistic, and publish it. "PEANUTS NO LONGER ARE LIKEABLE !...and have about the same effect, and make the same point, in my book. People either cast off the Spirit of God, or they embrace Him. Heaven and Hell are real. Noah faced a similar societal dilemma;

"Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. "

This is all that this article means. Man has given himself over to his own will and thoughts, and makes up his faith as he goes along, as it suits his lifestyle. "As it was in the days of Noah........

" And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all."

Lots of debate about God from afar, that is just speculative, philosophical foolishness. The Holy Word of God is our Path and Light, illuminated by His Living and Holy Spirit within us. As Noah, we are the sons and daughters of God who know better.

Because God so loves a fallen world, and we carry His heart if we are born from above, we persuade men. Obey Jesus, and keep his commandments; this is the whole duty of man. As John the Baptist and Jesus put it; "REPENT AND BELIEVE!"





 2012/6/24 11:44
EverestoSama
Member



Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


 Re:

Quote:
All I can say is that it describes what is true here in the Bible Belt of the USA, like it or not. And like it or not, it describes those given to Calvinism who think they can sin with no fear of eternal consequences because God, after all, has forgiven all their sins, both past and present. Granted, not all Calvinists behave this way, but far too many do.



Would just be history repeating itself again.

 2012/6/24 12:21Profile
ArtB
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 431
New York

 Re:

by ginnyrose on 2012/6/24 6:23:21 wrote:
"All I can say is that it describes what is true here in the Bible Belt of the USA, like it or not. And like it or not, it describes those given to Calvinism who think they can sin with no fear of eternal consequences because God, after all, has forgiven all their sins, both past and present. Granted, not all Calvinists behave this way, but far too many do."

Ginnyrose, I'm very sorry to hear your testimony, that Christians inside the Bible Belt would be just as sinful as Christians outside the Bible Belt, if they were not kept in exceeding fear of being hell bound. But Take away the Hell-Bound threat and they would be their true selves and sin as much as Christians outside the bible Belt. Apparently their sin nature has not been transformed. The word for this is called ‘Hypocrisy’.

As for me, I have a personal relationship with God. I love him and He loves me, and this, ever since I was 4 years old. Ever since He speaks to me in words of love, every day these words, and this does something to me. It’s Him for me, and I for Him, and He tells me this every day of my life.

Life is like riding a bike or motorcycle, where you look is where you go. When a policeman pulls over a driver on a highway for an infraction of the driving rules, he tells the driver to get out of the car and move away from the car. He does this because many pulled over cars get hit by drivers who stretch their neck to see the poor sap who got pulled over.

This was also true for the Mosaic Laws, it kept their minds focused on sins, and when opportunity to commit sin undetected, sin calls upon them, they cave in.

People tend do what their mind keeps focusing on. If a child is told constantly to not put beans in his ears, and beans are available, it becomes almost certain that sooner or later the child will put beans in his ears. People have a strong penchant to do what they think about. A mind set on negative laws, Thou Shall not do, the very thought stirs up passion to do the opposite, and when opportunity comes, the will to resist simply breaks down.

This is why Paul wrote, The Power of sin is in The [Mosaic} Law. Paul plainly declares that the purpose of the Mosaic Law was to cause sin to increase. It was our tutor until Jesus Christ arrived. Through His grace, God washed away all our sins for all time by the atoning blood of Jesus Christ, our Perfect Paschal Lamb.

Since I was 4 years of age I've had a daily fellowship with God. I rejected memory rote prayers by 7 years old, such as saying the Catholic "Hail Mary" or the rosary. The sole exception was the Our Father given to us By Jesus.: The perfect prayer. I learned from scripture to not multiply my words, but when I do pray, I should pray to the Father, and any request I made to God the Father and I did so in Jesus name. Thus prayer was similar to cashing a check, if the proper name is on not on the check, then the check is worth nothing.

Dear Jesus:

I thought that love was just a word
They sang about in songs I heard
It took your death to reveal
That I was wrong and love is real


_________________
Arthur Biele

 2012/6/25 19:25Profile









 Re: A Holy God who holds the keys to Hell, and Death. Fear Him, Love Him,worship Him.

Ginnyrose, I'm very sorry to hear your testimony, that Christians inside the Bible Belt would be just as sinful as Christians outside the Bible Belt, if they were not kept in exceeding fear of being hell bound.

" But Take away the Hell-Bound threat and they would be their true selves and sin as much as Christians outside the bible Belt. Apparently their sin nature has not been transformed. The word for this is called ‘Hypocrisy’.,,ArtB

But Jesus gave a command about faith toward Himself, for all Christians to obey.

"And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.

But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him."

It is impossible to have intimacy with God without Loving Him, as it is equally impossible to truly know Him without fearing Him. The faith that denies this, is one that has fell into deception, and likely has received another spirit than the Holy One; I see this as a "Religious Spirit", that justifies men, though separate from the commands in the Word. In this case, God is Love and no judgment, at all; a great lie.

The existence of Hell, as in this scripture above is rooted in the Fear of God as a holy attribute, and through hundreds of references in the Bible, either directly or indirectly, drives the two together as one; "Fear Him who has the power to cast into Hell."; Hell and the fear of the Lord go together.

Often, those who are never born again by the Holy Spirit, cannot reconcile the two, not understanding that the fear of the Lord is clean, converting the soul. A Godly man or woman will always fear the Lord, as they will also believe the Word that Hell is as real, as the Bible states over and over, as it's references to Heaven being our home.

As far as "hypocrisy" would stand, the word means two faced, as the Greek actors would use in theater, to depict sorrow or laughter as they held a different face on a stick to suit the scene.

God the Father is all light. He judges evil and rebellion, and saves those who trust and obey Him; believing in Jesus. He needs no mask; it is His nature.

As far as your testimony is concerned, it reeks of religion to me, and even hints at a rebelliousness, and your claims of intimacy do not ring true with the Word. The Spirit and the Word will always agree.

The scary thing to me, as one who fears God,[ who has the keys to Death and Hell, by the way] is that you seem deeply committed to your error, and continue to sell it as Gospel Truth. If continued, I fear that you will be judged, and plea to you to repent and believe the Word as the Word.

It is not, nor is the fruit of it good.

With as much compassion as I can muster...Tom

"FEAR GOD AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS; THIS IS THE WHOLE DUTY OF MAN."

 2012/6/26 3:33
ArtB
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 431
New York

 Re:

Apparently, some here are arguing that we are not saved by God's grace through the Blood of Jesus Christ, and that, a gift from God, which no person can earn. But some on this thread believe that it is the fear of Hell is what leads us to salvation and/or become better Christians.

Who posting here can claim that you have become sinless because of you are terrified of Hell?

And yet you all sin continuously anyway. Have you forgotten this. Take the the beam from your eyes before you demand sinlessness from others who sin.

Our victory has never been our mastery over sin, we are saved by accepting God's free gift of eternal life in His Kingdom to come, through the Finished Work of Jesus Christ, a gift God offers freely to all who accept the atoning blood of Jesus Christ that He shed on the cross, taking upon Himself our sins - past, present, and future.

Can you love a Homosexual. Can you love and forgive those who falsely accuse you, those who whip you, those who would nail you to a cross, could you keep yourselves from cursing or condemning them? Jesus can, and He did.

1 Corinthians 15:55-57

55 O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?” 56 The sting of death is sin, and the POWER OF SIN IS THE LAW; 57 but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. (NASB)

This Victory is not our fear of Hell that makes us not sin. It is the Love of GOD for us WHOM through our purification from our sins through the atoning blood of Jesus Christ, the perfect Lamb of God whose blood washed away all our sins on the cross, thereby taking away the power of sin had on us, to do wrongs that we wish not to do.

1 JOHN 5-10

5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; 7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

Whose work is it that cleanses our sins, God is the one Whom cleanses us from our sins? But there are some on this thread that believe that it is really their fear of Hell that keeps us from sinning.

Be it known, as you measure others, so will you be meaured by your own standards you impose on others. A rock is sinless, but no one loves a rock.

The goal of sinlessness is a chaste after wind. Not any of us will be sinless in this life, get use to it. Are your sins lesser than those of gay people? Do you really think that? Sin is sin, they all miss the mark.

God does ask of us to not practice sin, meaning to not resort to sinning on purpose against our fellow humans for our gain at their loss, or better put, Jesus says we should love others as much as much we love ourselves. That is a good standard, because we all love ourselves very very much. So we should treat others as we ourselves would like to be treated. We should forgive as we wish to be forgiven. And we are very joyous when those we sinned against genuinely forgives us our sins and blesses us.

Jesus said: “Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?"


James 2:13 explaining The NT Law of Liberty:

13 For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.


Who is it capable of healing themselves. "No doctor, I don't need you, I can do this operation myself."

We are cleansed of our faults by the Holy Spirit working in each of us daily, It is God's work in us that cleanses us from all our sins. You can not have it both ways. We walk by faith in God's promises, we believe God. Or, we depend on our meager efforts to save ourselves, thinking we can pull ourselves up by our boostraps.

As for me, I accept the blood of Jesus as washing away all my sins for all time, THE PERFECT PASCHAL LAMB, and with that burden off of me, Through Jesus, I am free to delight myself in God, and bath daily in His love, with a clean conscious, and a deep love for He whom saved me and is actively transforming me daily, to be like Him, to love and forgive those who do me wrong. Love is a much greater motivator to being fruitfull, than fear. Like David, I delight in God and I give no thought for a Hell. For God has reached down His hand through His Son, and He SAVED me.

Whomever who has been freely forgiven much, also forgives and loves much. Praise be to God, my joy is complete. I love Him much, He is my joy and motivator. I am an open book to Him and delight in being continously in His presence, to be seen just as I am.







_________________
Arthur Biele

 2012/6/26 11:13Profile





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