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Thanks for posting that Jeremiah, that was great!
| 2012/6/19 5:53||Profile|
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Mr BillPro, I hear your heart of love, and your exhortation that we do not judge or have a critical spirit....yet I agree with the original post as well, b/c when I look at the churches around me, in all honesty they do not look any different than the world.
The verse came to mind, "....without holiness, no one shall see the Lord"....in looking up the reference (Heb. 12:14), I was led to this article on holiness by J C Ryle....I scratch my head to think that holiness "looked" so different in the 1800's than it does today....
| 2012/6/19 7:29||Profile|
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I am very impresed how close many in this thread are so close to not sinning.
I am not close to not sinning. I sin everyday. Just ask my wife, whom I do love. She is right, I sin regularly. And she does not know the half of it.
I am thankful very much to Jesus whose blood shed on the cross has already washed away all my sins, past, present, and future. I am very grateful for this Salvation he provided for me.
1 John 1:5-10
5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, AND THE BLOOD OF JESUS HIS SON CLEANSES US FROM ALL SIN. IF WE SAY THAT WE HAVE NO SIN, WE ARE DECEIVING OURSELVES...
8. If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.
I know I will be sinning the rest of my life. I can not save myself. I am ever thankful for what Jesus did for me on the cross, and His blood washes away all my sins for all time. I did not earn my salvation and eternal life in the presence of God, it was a gift from Father through His only begotten Son, Jesus, given unto me. I trust the indwelling Holy Spirit to transform me that I be pleasing in God's presence.
Holiness is not the absence of sin in our life,
Holiness is the presence of God in our life.
| 2012/6/19 8:48||Profile|
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I hope to make very clear that I in NO WAY consider myself "close to not sinning".....I sin by the minute in thoughts that are not Christlike. But I am passionate in my life to continue to move TOWARD Christlikeness more today than I was yesterday. Christ commands us to "Be ye holy, as I am holy"....I am not better than anyone else...my righteousness is as filthy rags.....but I think perhaps what the original poster was intending is that our culture at large, and more specifically professing Christians (again this is a generalization - to be sure there are many exceptions) do not seem to be moving toward holiness...where is the resemblance to Christ? Christians should look different if only in their passionate desire to conquer the flesh and put sin to death and take every thought captive....
I just wanted to clarify that I certainly do not think I have arrived...it is an ongoing process till we reach heaven.
| 2012/6/19 10:34||Profile|
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I think distinctions should be made between sinning habitually; i.e. living in sin and that of walking before God in a state of on-going humility, blood-washed repentance and a pure heart. The objectiveness of the latter is exhorted all throughout New Testament scripture and has been proved efficacious by many saints down through the ages. As a Christian, it is natural to be free from the power of sin; that is, by virtue of the imparted divine nature of God it is not only feasible, but normal to live in premeditative sin no longer.
The power of grace through the Holy Spirit, by the sanctifying blood of the New Covenant grants us the birthright to not "live like devils" any longer. It is entirely possible to walk before God each day with a clear, blood-cleansed conscience and collaborate with God's Spirit through faith in the putting to death of the works of the flesh. The Spirit of God works in us the will to resist evil, and His grace in conjunction with our faith gives us the power to overcome. It is possible to fail and fall, of course - and we will many times in our sojourning here - but the differentiaition between the sons of Adam and the reborn Sons of God, again, is in the "nature" of the creature.
The true Christian is a new creature, has a new heart, and may avail his or herself to Jesus Christ's "divine nature" having escaped the corrpution which is in the world through lust. The great and precious promises of God's Word were not written so we could continue in the adamic defeatism of sin, but so that we could be made free from the slavery of sin through Christ Jesus. These things were written that we "sin not" (that is, live in the handcuffs and leg irons of sin). But if any child of God does sin in word, thought or deed, he or she is immediately and sternly chastised by the Father and led to the place of repentance to where the blood is applied, the consicence restored and the process of sanctification continued to new avenues of glory and perfection.
Paul Frederick West
| 2012/6/19 12:09||Profile|
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Thank you for that post and distinction brother Paul. Very helpful and much needed.
| 2012/6/19 13:04||Profile|
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Thanks Areadymind and PaulWest for great posting and also other good replies. I hope to reply some more when I get home later.
Also ArtB I know you have read the list of the works of the flesh in gal. Chapter 5 and how it says that they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Do you think this means everybody and how does the blood cleanse what we willfully continue to do?
| 2012/6/19 13:54||Profile|
| Re: Christians Living like the Devil|
QUOTE: "Edited: more correct title would be Christians living like Sinners.==RBANKS
Actually, i think the original title is fine and quite accurate.
| 2012/6/20 18:33||Profile|
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QUOTE: "Thanks ald0025 for your reply! I agree somewhat with what you are saying but I have seen people who have repented and also have an experience with God but some how later in life start justifying things they use to believe was not to be a part of the christian life."==RBANKS
But didn't Jesus say that in the last days the love of most will grow cold? And he who endures TO THE END will be saved.
There is also the parable of the seed and the sower. Some believe for a while, and then fall away.
| 2012/6/20 18:35||Profile|
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Quote: This is a very damaging paragraph.
The reason is that they aren't really born again. I can attest to this personally, I thought I was saved because I repeated some sinner prayer and went to Church, but I lived liked the world. The problem also is the preaching in the pulpit, preaching this false grace, such as ask Jesus to come into your heart and if you do that you are saved, they forgot to leave about repentance, turning from your sin, the cross of Christ, and the costs of being of Christian.
You may have started out this way, but not everyone is like you.
Yes they may have said the sinners prayer without repentance, but that doesn't mean that repentance will not come later.
There is no formula to this or a manner of getting saved, the scriptures tell us that we are saved by grace through faith, not by repentance. Repentance is a God granted virtue, it doesn't come naturally, it's given. Repentance comes after one has been enlightened, whether it's at that moment or later on, it's none of our business and we should not be judging those who have said the sinners prayer.
How do you know that that isn't the only information that they had received? Up until that day they didn't even consider God but they found a tract, read it, God can illuminate any tract and if all the instructions that they know of is the sinners prayer, who are we to judge them?
Many a drunk or drug addict seeing a tract blowing in the wind catching it reading it and it tells them about Jesus Christ dying for their sins and they have no idea what to do next, seeing the instructions on the back "If you accept Jesus Christ into your heart, you'll be saved", again, I say, who are we to judge them? If God is leading them He will direct them to a place of repentance.
I am just heart broken by your words, you have no idea that someone who has weak faith could be reading your post, doubting the day that God met them through what they read on a tract may sink deeper in despair before they even met Jesus Christ.
It doesn't say anything about repentance or accepting of the Lord Jesus Christ when Peter preached to Cornelius household, they simply heard the message and while they heard God baptized the whole lot with the Holy Ghost. Peter stood back and was amazed that these people didn't come through the way he thought they should. "Repent, be baptized and ye shall receive the Holy Ghost" was his saving message, but God went to the heart of the issue and deposited His Spirit first.
I know of people that have said the sinners prayer and receive the Holy Ghost the same night and then were baptized later and not only that many days later, repented of many things that the Spirit brought to their attention.
Matthew 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
| 2012/6/20 21:18|