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Jer2
Member



Joined: 2012/2/19
Posts: 25


 Re:

Trekker, it's right that the Holy Spirit convicts and converts people. I think you probably know that I was saying that people have been converted by the Holy Spirit when they were presented the gospel by people in gross sin or error.

IHOP is International House of Prayer, in Kansas City, led by Mike Bickle. Likely, people have written some about it on SI, and you can see what has been written. If not, there is a lot of information about the group online. You can get both sides of people's views.

 2012/6/22 14:57Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7480
Mississippi

 Re:

QUOTE:
______________________________________________________________

Pray tell, what is "IHOP"? The only IHOP i knows is International House of Pancakes. They serve luscious pumpkin pancakes in October.
______________________________________________________________

Trekker, you are asking the same question I used to when I would see IHOP - it would confuse me, totally.

Anyhow, IHOP stands for International House of Prayer.

Hope this makes sense to you now.


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2012/6/22 15:41Profile









 Re:

Yes and the Anabaptist were called heretics in their day by the reformers that are revered by many in this forum. I have seen a thread criticising a brother who us about yo be martyred in Iran. This brother is held to be a heretic because of allegations he does not believe in the trinity. And yet some will justify voting for a Mormon for President.

Something about throwing that first stone without sin.......

Bearmaster.

 2012/6/22 16:51
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2758
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: Revival in Manchester Kentucky

What an encouraging article, thank for sharing this.

Oh Lord, do it again and again and again throughout our land!

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2012/6/22 19:38Profile









 Re:

An excerpt from the article,

"As Pastor Ken relates, “63 proud pastors set their pride aside and repented before thirty-five hundred people…we had to confess… we were responsible for our county’s condition because we stayed within the walls of our church. We stayed with our denominational programs who really did nothing in addressing the drug problem… we repented of the fortress mentality. And we covenanted together that we were going to fight together, shoulder to shoulder, side by side, to fight this drug problem.” Pastor Ken affirms, “Everything changed at that very moment, and, as Doug says, the heavens opened and good things were on its way.”

Pastor Doug emphasizes the repentance of the pastors was the key. People who had never before felt the presence of the Lord still talk about how evident it was that day.

 2012/6/22 21:22
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7480
Mississippi

 Re: Revival in Manchester Kentucky

Fascinating.

Did you notice it happened in an obscure place using obscure people?

God bless.


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2012/6/22 21:40Profile
Jer2
Member



Joined: 2012/2/19
Posts: 25


 Re: Revival in Manchester Kentucky

bearmaster, why is it okay for you to be caustic with your Christian brothers and sisters? I expressed legitimate concerns, coming from a lot of experiences with people harmed by groups like IHOP (and IHOP). I wasn't rude, and did not criticize anyone who did not agree with me, like you have done.

I am frankly tired of Christians on the internet thinking it is all right to be rude.

Best wishes to you, and good-bye.

 2012/6/22 23:29Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: Jer2

Hi jer I apperciate your concern,
I have never heard of ihop except for the pancake but after reading what you wrote and what I found on there web sight, I am having a hard time finding how they are not less error filled than most main line churches actually after going to there websight it makes me want to drive to kansas City to see if they actualy are trully seeking God to the extent that there Websight protrays.

RE: Jer2 wrote /IHOP is full of legalism and error/

actually there websight seemed to be just the opposit, unstead of trusting in a lot of dead doctrines they seem to be truly seeking real relationship with God.

RE: Jer2 wrote /They had a group of women "marry" Jesus, and romanticize the individual's relationship with Jesus/

um that sounds scary but there websight says.

/We affirm that spiritual intimacy with God refers to developing a deep personal relationship with God through the Spirit and the Word. In other words, it is based on a deep understanding and knowledge of what the Word of God says about God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
We deny that spiritual intimacy is associated with anything related to human sensuality/
http://www.ihop.org/about/affirmations-and-denials/

RE:jer wrote /They require their staff to fast and spend certain amounts of time in prayer,/

OK?

RE: jer wrote /and to tithe certain amounts (from what I have read)./

I agree that is wrong but I have been in a many of Baptist and other Churches that taught a legalistic 10% tithe many do.

RE: jer wrote /Teaching people they will die for Jesus does not mean the group isn't in error. David Koresh and many cult leaders taught their followers to be ready to die "for Jesus." /

I found nothing on the websight resembling David Koresh.

I agree jer that we need to be have disernment and it would not suprise me that this group is in much error but what religius organization is not??

I would be interested in knowing more fact errors of this group.

Just at first glance they seem to be getting right what a lot of others are not, but I know how at first glance everything looks better than what it often times is.



 2012/6/23 0:38Profile
Jer2
Member



Joined: 2012/2/19
Posts: 25


 Re:

proudpapa, I will share some of the error that is alarming. It's long, but I want to give enough to show that there are major problems in his ministry.

Mike Bickle's IHOP is founded on prophecies of several men. One of these, Bob Jones, is supposed to have consulted with an angel who came to him frequently, an angel named Emma. It was this angel who also appeared to Todd Bentley and was the source of a lot of his "power." When some saints prevailed in prayer about Bentley's error, Emma suddenly left and Bentley's power evaporated overnight. Needless to say, the "angel" was not from the Lord. However, there has been no repentance from Bob Jones for consulting with this spirit and passing on instructions for the ministry from it to Mike Bickle.

Paul Cain was another prophet upon whose prophecies Bickle's enterprise is built. He was very closely aligned with Bickle's ministry and highly trusted for prophetic direction for maybe 12 years. The fruit from Paul Cain? Eventually outed as having seduced young, male aides (evidently over a period of years), who highly regarded him as a spiritual man; found to be an alcoholic; and anointed Todd Bentley as some mighty chosen one of God. This last happened in Lakeland, within weeks of the married Bentley being discovered to have been involved for a while with a woman in his ministry.

Here is an article by a (supposed) former staffer at IHOP about Contemplative Prayer practiced at IHOP. Several years ago, I saw this book listed online in IHOP's required reading for their classes, so I can corroborate this.

http://gospelmasquerade.wordpress.com/2009/08/01/contemplative-prayer-continued/

Note the instruction that "once you feel God's presence, focus on it in a concentrated way." Also, "You will be able to notice His presence now; He has always been there, but now your attention is on Him within you."
Another of the instructions has the goal to feel God's presence.

Here is a long passage from a blog written by the same former staffer. ( Her blog:
http://gospelmasquerade.wordpress.com/2009/03/22/kissing-god-emulating-saints-how-catholocism-and-the-bridal-paradigm-are-leaking-into-the-body-of-christ/ )

The passage:

"I’ve been asked many times about what I’ve seen and experienced in the time I was on staff as an intern at the International House of Prayer (IHOP) here in Kansas City.
One of the major cracks in IHOP’s faulty foundation
is their return in many ways to the New Age roots of Catholicism. The saints, patriarchs and characters of scripture are the ones idolized, emulated and worshiped."

"Everyone is encouraged to be a “Mary” at the feet of Jesus
or an “Anna” in the temple or a “David” (ie: worshiper).
The focus is not on being like Jesus. It’s about being like a particular Bible character. Jesus is not the primary focus…becoming like a person is. Catholics worship Mary, IHOP-ers worship the pillar figures that have become a staple part of their doctrine."

"Another example of this is seen in IHOP’s erroneous interpretation of the book of Song of Solomon."

"The book of Song of Solomon is held above the rest of scripture as the primary way G-d relates to His people. This makes G-d out to be a sexual, lovesick, love-struck, hormone-driven teenager who is so “captivated” and “awestruck” that He longs after humanity and is running around Heaven going crazy without her."


"...On 9/24/07, an ex-ihoper shares on a blog forum that as part of the required reading curriculum at IHOP’s Forerunner School of Ministry, students have to read a book called “The The Relentless Tenderness of Jesus” written by a Franciscan Priest named Brennan Manning. Chapter six expounds on the belief of the author that “God is sexually aroused by His people.” This led students to confessing that reading this book caused them to have sexual thoughts…which they forced themselves to excuse away by telling themselves “well, God feels this way so it’s ok”. When Allen Hood (the school’s president) was confronted about the book, he refused to pull it from the shelves or from the required reading material of the class. His response was simply to “chew on the meat and spit out the bones”. This is the kind of dangerous thinking that causes many in cults such as IHOP to have a passive mind. They come under a learned helplessness and lose all ability to filter and discern between truth and error."

"This theology which is a staple teaching of IHOP also forces men to relate to G-d in a feminine way with G-d being his lover. G-d never intended for men to sacrifice their masculinity in order to worship Him. He does not place men into feminine roles. I’ve heard Mike say things like “when we say ‘kiss me with the kisses of your mouth’ we simply mean ‘kiss me with the kisses of your word’.
No where in scripture is this interpretation supported or taught as a way of G-d relating to the heart of His creation. That verse does not say “kiss me with the kisses of your word.” This is IHOP’s translation of this verse which they tacked on to make it mean what they want it to mean."

"It’s a deeply sobering and serious thing to take a verse, passage or book in the Bible and re-draw the lines of meaning and interpretation to propagate your own theology and teach your spin on scripture. G-d is pretty clear in His word about how He desires it to be interpreted. He warns against his Word not being added to or taken from. To misinterpret scripture is to misinterpret and misrepresent the heart of the One who wrote it."

 2012/6/23 3:13Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3546
Louisiana

 Re:

How did we come to the place that we started out thanking God
For a true heaven sent revival and ended up bashing IHOP?

This is a good example of why we are not seeing more revivals, because
Instead of coming together in unity in one mind and one accord
on the ground of Christ, there is division and strife over our
differences.

Mike


_________________
Mike

 2012/6/23 8:23Profile





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