SermonIndex Audio Sermons
SermonIndex - Promoting Revival to this Generation
Give To SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Sola fide

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 Next Page )
PosterThread
Giggles
Member



Joined: 2009/12/12
Posts: 592


 Re:

I think the discrepancy here is arising from confusion on the different aspects of salvation: justification (the actual legal declaration of not guilty towards the sinner) and regeneration and sanctification (the sinner becoming a new creation with a new heart and new desires that then matures in holiness and grows spiritual fruit...inseparable from one who has truly been declared not guilty but separate from that actual decretive moment).

Romans 4-6 expound on this:

God justifies the ungodly (4:5); those whom are justified are so purely by the righteousness of Christ (5:17-18); such a belief would lead men to believe they could sin then that grace would abound, but they would only prove they have not been justified (6:1-2); for only the fruit of sanctification ends in eternal life (6:22).

Error can come when only one side of the equation is emphasized: antinomianism waits for those who stress only faith; works righteousness for those who count works as necessary for salvation.

Error can also come when the order in which these changes occur is confused (ordo salutis). If sanctification is necessitized for salvation, then the gospel is dwarfed; if the reality of the ontological change of regeneration is left unmentioned, then the character of God and His goal in salvation is maligned.

All that to say, it would be proper to say both that people are justified by faith alone and yet will not be saved without the works of sanctification. It's the understanding how they fit together that is crucial.


_________________
Paul

 2012/6/17 13:27Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 RE: learjet

Great Post learjet!!

 2012/6/17 14:28Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Noah

Did Faith save Noah?? yes
Did Faith alone save Noah??

 2012/6/17 14:35Profile
FaithALONE
Member



Joined: 2012/6/17
Posts: 5


 Re: Noah

Sermon Index is making a mockery of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Continually you want to add your works to the acquiring and maintaining of your salvation. Actually it is "your salvation", as it is not the salvation of Jesus.

It is horrible exegesis of the scripture to take a random verse here and there, and then out of context, to tried to justify your works contributing to salvation.

The conform message of the Gospels - Acts - Romans, and all the Epistles is that we are saved by grace through faith not of works. And this Gospel is everlasting / eternal life - remember Jesus said "I give unto them eternal life and they shall NEVER perish".


How important is the question "What is the true Gospel?" - enough for the apostle Paul to write:


Galatians 1:8-9

8 But should we, or an angel from Heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again: If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that which ye have received, let him be accursed!


If any man preaches any other Gospel, let them be damned to hell.

If the moderators of this forum want to ignore this thread - as they usually do with the real essential threads of the faith - so be it, but I am telling you that that is not "earnestly contending for the faith" and I believe is a symptom of being rooted not in Christ.

 2012/6/17 15:43Profile
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

Some great post here!

"Does the Bible say that we are Justified by faith alone?"

Yes. BUT there is a great misunderstanding by many in the evangelical church today to what Faith is.

To many it means just a mental agreement or a one time decision we make. However it seems clear to me (as has already been pointed out) that faith is always defined as an act of obedience to what God says. Consider Hebrews chapter 11. All those who are described as having faith did something that demonstrated their faith.
This is what James is making clear when he says "faith without works is dead." He is describing a profession of faith that is not real faith.

I understand that the word faith and faithfulness are the same word in the original greek. Therefore it could be enlightning if we used the word faithfulness in place of faith.

So yes we are justified by faith alone, but real faith that can be seen.


_________________
Dave

 2012/6/17 15:45Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1839
Scotland, UK

 Re: Noah

Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness.

In brief, James is examining two kinds of faith: one that leads to godly works and one that does not. One is true, and the other is false. One is dead, the other alive; hence, "Faith without works is dead," James 2:20. But, he is not contradicting salvation/justification is by faith alone.

Notice that James actually quotes the same verse that Paul quotes in Rom. 4:3 Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."

James 2:23 says, "and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, and Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.'" If James was trying to teach a contradictory doctrine of faith and works than the other New Testament writers, then he would not have used Abraham as an example. Therefore, we can see that justification is by faith alone and that James was talking about false faith, not real faith when he said we are not justified by faith alone.


_________________
Colin Murray

 2012/6/17 16:02Profile
learjet
Member



Joined: 2010/4/19
Posts: 447


 Re:

Quote:
The conform message of the Gospels - Acts - Romans, and all the Epistles is that we are saved by grace through faith not of works. And this Gospel is everlasting / eternal life - remember Jesus said "I give unto them eternal life and they shall NEVER perish".



Um, nice try but I made clear in my first reply to this thread what James is talking about.

James (the Lord's brother) made clear what his words were, they mean what they say and say what they mean.

Again, works are the fruit of salvation, salvation is not the fruit of works.

You say you are saved? Show me your works.

This is the gospel of Jesus Christ. The barren teaching of faith alone is the bane of Westernized Christianity. "Come forward friend, say a prayer friend, you are saved" yet nothing is ever manifested in their lives that resembles change. They had a run in with the Living God and nothing is changed?

TWICE THE SONS OF THE HELL.

James 2:14-24 (in context):

Quote:
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that —and shudder.

20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[a]? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[b] and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.



 2012/6/17 16:24Profile









 Re: FaithALONE

Let's see here. You have been a member of this forum for how long? A little over a day. And you are an expert on what Sermon Index believes and what the moderators do?

Bro I suggest you cool your jets and check out some of the archived threads. Also listen to some of the sermons. No one is implying you are saved by works. But a saving faith will have works that come out of a regenerated heart. Check out Eph. 2:8-10.

The old Puritains would say that that it is faith alone that saves. But saving faith s never alone. Or you are saved by Christ Jesus as unto good works. Go look at John 15 in the vine and branches. Fruit or good works flow out of a faith union with Christ.

Can't explain it any simpler than that.

By the way you might want to read the SI guide lines. They are our code of conduct on this forum. And welcome to the discussion. But please do respect the administrators. They are extending you much grace by allowing you to come and post.

Bearmaster.

 2012/6/17 16:25









 Re: Faith Alone! Works by Faith!

Faith alone for salvation, must mean a gift from God to believe in Jesus death and resurrection for sin. Death to meet God's righteous demand through the shedding of blood, regarding the sins of many. Resurrection by Christ being raised from the dead so that those who believe in His death can walk in newness of life. To argue that faith is sufficient for one to be fully saved and not to include walking in resurrection life is rather like saying that one has only seen the blood and failed to see the resurrection. It is like saying I am a god. Scripturally, only the Father sees the blood of Christ because only the Father has demanded it. Just as only God sees the blood which the High Priest under the Law of Moses threw upon the mercy seat. If anyone else has attempted to barge their way into the Holy of Holies to witness the blood they would have been struck dead. Even the High Priest didn't know whether he would make it out alive. He was required to abide by every letter of the Law in order to make certain his coming out again.

The blood of Christ is ever before the Father in heaven. A Lamb newly slain enters into heaven and presents Himself before the Throne of God and is accepted by God whereafter is sung a new song. The Lamb newly slain is before the Father. Not before men. The blood is before the Father, not before men. Be bold and enter into heaven before the Father understand that you have a sound basis for confidence before God. But to say that you can then walk as you please before men is to show that you have not understood God's righteous requirement to walk faithfully. Salvation is more than receiving eternal life by faith. It is also walking by Grace through faith in order to please God. To say otherwise is to deny the meaning of Baptism as well as the coming kingdom of God and Christ. It is to neglect your salvation and to risk rejection of Christ when He returns. The blood is before the Father not before men. Jesus gave two keys to the apostles. Both of which attend to salvation of men. The one is the preaching of the gospel of Grace and repentance towards God who has accepted the shed blood of Christ. The other is Baptism which speaks of death in Christ. One died for all therefore all have died. It speaks of being buried with Him in death and being raised up with Him in resurrection of life so that we might walk in newness of life. If we accept the Blood and reject the walking how can we say we are yet saved.

 2012/6/17 16:53
ADisciple
Member



Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada

 Re:

You are saved by faith alone. Therefore make sure your works are the works of faith, as were Abraham's.


_________________
Allan Halton

 2012/6/17 17:25Profile





©2002-2024 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Revival to this Generation.
Privacy Policy