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crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: And shall shew signs and wonders to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Hi James,

Quote:
Oh, just to clarify…these “healers/witchdoctors” (N’anga) are certainly not Christian and the fee for their work is often a large sum of money or involves breaking the law either of man or of God. It is demonic without a doubt. They cast spells and curses. Having been exposed to Hollywood here, even I can feel how ridiculous that sounds but believe me, it is very real. That was not the point (actually the point was not clear from that) at all though, the point was, it is easier for people to accept that the powers of darkness can manifest this kind of power than it is for them to believe in the power of God. As you rightly discerned, this is a general statement.


Would agree with that, thanks for clarifying. Guess I was just trying to differentiate and again that's what can make things so muddy. The power of God is on display, regardless.

Quote:
Jesus never emptied out hospitals. Sometimes, such as at the pool in Bethesda, he would be surrounded by crowds of sick people, yet sometimes would just heal one. The gift is just that... it's not available to be used anytime one wants to.


Good point brother.
And neither did he hold 'healing crusades' either, no cynicism intended.

Greg, I "borrowed" that Ravenhill quote from the "Ravenhill Quotes" thread...was actually looking for something else... :-)


_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/2/12 22:15Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

And neither did he hold 'healing crusades' either,



Indeed at that.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2005/2/12 22:37Profile
formidable
Member



Joined: 2004/7/3
Posts: 77
Perth, Australia

 Re: where was he

i was wondering if the article said where in the crowd the man was?
http://www.indiasalvationcrusade.com/photo3.htm

tell me, in this crowd in someone died how long would it take to hear of it.

also it cant be put on benny hinns head he was responsable for it, or can it?


_________________
scot

 2005/2/13 1:02Profile
markm
Member



Joined: 2004/11/4
Posts: 46


 Re:

7 million people in attendance. What are they turning out to see? Is it a sign of spiritual hunger? Or just curiosity about the American `faith show`?

I'm headed for Bangalore at the end of April for 2 weeks to do VBS. Any prayers you can send up for my team and the kids we will be teaching, would be appreciated.

Quote:
BANGALORE: The protest over the Festival of Blessings programme escalated on Friday with widespread arson and stone-pelting across the city, which left several persons injured.

Normal life was disrupted as angry mobs forcibly shut down shops and blocked traffic in many areas following the bandh call given by the Hindu Jagran Vedike to protest the show by evangelist Benny Hinn.

BMTC bore the brunt of the mobs ire as over 110 buses were damaged. Many private vehicles were also damaged. Agitators went on a rampage pelting stones and setting fire to buses in places across the city. Police lobbed tear gas shells and lathicharged crowds at several places.

The trouble began around 6 am when a mob stopped a BMTC bus and set it on fire after forcing commuters to get off. Buses parked in the terminal were set on fire.

The police were caught off guard as most of the force was at the Jakkur airfield, the venue for the programme.

 2005/2/13 3:59Profile
formidable
Member



Joined: 2004/7/3
Posts: 77
Perth, Australia

 Re:

matt 11-7,8
As they departed, Jesus began to say to the multitudes concerning John: “What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind? 8“But what did you go out to see?

luke 9-7
7Now Herod the tetrarch heard of all that was done by Him; and he was perplexed, because it was said by some that John had risen from the dead, 8and by some that Elijah had appeared, and by others that one of the old prophets had risen again. 9Herod said, “John I have beheaded, but who is this of whom I hear such things?” So he sought to see Him.

luke 19-1.5
1Then Jesus entered and passed through Jericho. 2Now behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus who was a chief tax collector, and he was rich. 3And he sought to see who Jesus was, but could not because of the crowd, for he was of short stature. 4So he ran ahead and climbed up into a sycamore tree to see Him, for He was going to pass that way. 5And when Jesus came to the place, He looked up and saw him,


john12-17,26
Therefore the people, who were with Him when He called Lazarus out of his tomb and raised him from the dead, bore witness. 18For this reason the people also met Him, because they heard that He had done this sign. 19The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, “You see that you are accomplishing nothing. Look, the world has gone after Him!”
20Now there were certain Greeks among those who came up to worship at the feast. 21Then they came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida of Galilee, and asked him, saying, “Sir, we wish to see Jesus.” 22Philip came and told Andrew, and in turn Andrew and Philip told Jesus. 23But Jesus answered them, saying, “The hour has come that the Son of Man should be glorified. 24“Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it produces much grain. 25“He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26“If anyone serves Me, let him follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also. If anyone serves Me, him My Father will honor.

they did the same with John the baptist
they did the same with Jesus christ
theve done the same all through history
there doing it now with benny hinn.
what did they go to see?
who knows?
who knows a mans heart cept him & the Lord


_________________
scot

 2005/2/13 4:20Profile
AgesofWar
Member



Joined: 2003/5/24
Posts: 138
Chicago IL USA

 Re:

Quote:
7 million people in attendance. What are they turning out to see? Is it a sign of spiritual hunger? Or just curiosity about the American `faith show`?



Can the Lord Jesus use what it wrong to bring what is right? Can OUR Great GOD almighty use the armies of Darkness to do his own will?

Read the book of Amos Plz.

Don’t forget that Jesus did not come to us to sow peace. For a Husband will turn against his Wife and a Father against his son. There will be 5 in a house and 3 will be against 2.

I Think on my GOD, our God makes everything work well for them who Love him.

Benny will go and do his tricks and he will deceive many as he himself is being deceived. He will go from bad to worse and those who Love this World will go right along with him.

We will still pray for those lost yes even Benny, and we will still speak the Truth that our Great GOD commands us to speak.

Think these things below over:

The Devil had to ask for permission to Test Job,

Satan Had To Ask For Permission To Test JOB!!!!!!
(the book of Job)

Benny is a False Prophet so are so many others but they cannot overcome the Elect.
It’s Just not possible.
JESUS said “even if it were Possible” Not that it was possible.

[Please note that the only way we are not deceived is by being filled with the spirit and testing the spirits and matching everything we hear with what is written.]

We are called to warn the Elect of God (those few who care nothing for what this world offers).
We are called to warn those who want the Kingdom and God as the King of it.

If your body is broken what does it matter>? Shouldn’t your hope be for a new one?
If you Pray for a healed body but have a heart not dedicated to Christ can you be expected to be healed?
The reason many are not saved is that there motives are wrong! They want Joy here on Earth and not suffering! They Want the Easy life! They Want God The Genie in a Bible!!
They do not repent or they Repent as a way to get what they want!!

I urge you… See that you are a sinner and expect nothing but suffering, persecution, and Peace besides, but let your true rewards be in Heaven when Our Great God Lord Jesus will say

“Well Done Good and Faithful Servant”

Ok if you wanted a signed bible from Benny hinn guess how much it costs... (In 2003)

$50.00 usd
$100.00 usd
$1000.00 usd

Did you guess 50.00?
Did you guess 100.00?

Well if you guessed $1000.00 then you were correct!

Watch those Evil Dogs and warn the Sheep!

In Love Michael


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Michael

 2005/2/13 5:03Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Enough

At some point this begins to get old and appear to be nothing more than bashing. But there is a glaring inconsistency here;


"While prayers and high-decibel choir sessions under dazzling lights and special effects drew applause, the healing sessions at the end drew protests and questions by rationalists and rightwing Hindu activists on the “miracle powers” of the Israeli-born Hinn.

In fact, the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) has demanded the resignation of Dharam Singh for permitting Hinn to conduct the festival and “mislead” the people with his healing powers to cure the sick and terminal patients.

Challenging Hinn's claims that several people got cured of their diseases by participating in the prayer-cum-healing sessions with the blessings of Jesus Christ, Hindu activists said an equal number of sick went home disappointed with no change in their health condition.

Refuting the charges, Hinn told the gathering that god alone was the healer and he simply prayed to invoke the lord's blessings to cure the sick and help the poor as Jesus Christ did over 2,000 years ago.

“[i]I want to dispel apprehensions that I have come here to convert people. It is not true. I am only a servant of Jesus. I came here because people in India also need healing, just like anywhere in the world. God wants to heal. That is why millions of people have come to attend the festival and not for me[/i],” Hinn asserted."

[url=http://www.indiasalvationcrusade.com/index.htm]http://www.indiasalvationcrusade.com/index.htm[/url]

If the latter part be true, then why are they still sending out their pleas to 'sow seed' into his ministry to 'save souls'?

From his own site talking about the festival in India;

[i]"I was asked over and over, “How do you feel about all this opposition?” The answer was very simple: “My job is to preach the love of Jesus Christ, even to those who oppose the preaching of the Gospel.”

Now in Manila, I am anticipating the Lord’s amazing provision of still more massive crowds—5-million are expected—as hungry souls gather to hear the saving and healing message of the glorious Gospel.

I believe, more than ever, that God is asking you and me to go to the nations of the world and tell them about His precious Son, Jesus Christ. Doors are opening all over the world as never before, and the Gospel message is being welcomed in nations whose borders were once closed. I’m willing to go. I’m willing to spend and be spent for the sake of the Gospel. Will you send me to the nations by sowing a sacrificial seed today so that I can preach the Gospel to the vast fields of human souls ripening all around us and help me reap a supernatural harvest of souls for eternity? [/i]

Conversion is an option? Which gospel does he speak of? There is also another harvest of souls for eternity, tares.

More goobledegook...

BANGALORE: For three days now, the city has groaned under the weight of the Benny Hinn show. Many of the apparently 'healed' have justified the need for the mega event despite the multitude of problems.


But the jury is still out on whether Hinn is a fraud or someone with connections to the Lord.

Questions preying on people's minds regarding Hinn's healing methods and utterances indicate that that all may not have been above board. Sample these:

• Why were only those 'cured' allowed on stage?

Colonel Samuel (retd) suffers from immobility of the right side of the body. Hoping for a miracle, he, with wife in tow, managed to shuffle up to the stage. Only to be jostled away by an organiser who said: "[b]Only if you are healed can you go on stage. If you're not healed by Jesus, your time has not come[/b]."

• Are they really cured forever? •Why are there no doctors from city hospitals, but mostly from Hinn's Ministry?

• What actually is the 'miracle'? •What is his modus operandi?

Neither Hinn nor his stooges have any answer except a tepid, 'Faith'.

One question that will probably never be answered is: how many of the 'healed' will wake up one of these mornings, after Hinn has left for greener pastures, feeling unhealed? Like all faith healers, Benny Hinn Inc. is unwilling to put the 'healing' claims to scientific scrutiny.

Pre- and post-'healing' medical records can tell the truth, but nobody is volunteering this information; neither are they keeping a count of the 'healed'.

Responding to TOI's query on some people rushing to the stage for a cure, [b]Hinn said: "This is psychosomatic healing wherein the mind is capable of enabling the body to think itself healed. Even before I come on stage, there have been cases where people have been healed; the music, prayers and atmosphere add to it.[/b]"

Hinn's organisers had a different take: they said prayers were responsible for the 'healing' and 'miracles'.

Even before Hinn's visit, rationalists had voiced apprehensions about mass hysteria that can overtake a person and claim a cure. Explains magician K.S. Ramesh: "I have made Ganesha drink 10 litres of milk. I have performed the healing operations that psychic surgeons perform, but I tell people it's magic and there is no religion involved. Faith is a multi-million industry."

Hinn's Ministry is an opulent one, making $100 million a year globally; of this, Rs 15 crore to Rs 20 crore is raised by the Indian chapter alone.

When Hinn said, "I have met the Pope twice," someone wondered aloud, "Why can't he cure the ailing Pope then?"

Whether Hinn will come back to India is a million-dollar question. He will, nevertheless, continue to reap the harvest of his Bangalore show.
[url=http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/999261.cms]http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/999261.cms[/url]

"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull."
W. C. Fields


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Mike Balog

 2005/2/13 7:18Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Quote:
by formidable on 2005/2/12 22:02:36 i was wondering if the article said where in the crowd the man was?
http://www.indiasalvationcrusade.com/photo3.htm

tell me, in this crowd in someone died how long would it take to hear of it.

also it cant be put on benny hinns head he was responsable for it, or can it?



Here is the original;
http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/jan232005/i4.asp

But to answer your question, hard to say, in fact wouldn't even go that far. But it does remain part of the problem and raises a whole host of questions. [i]Should[/i] people with serious medical problems such as a man with a heart condition be brought out to hear a mere man who is promoting a mixed up version of quasi-Christianity, dangling a carrot of hope of healing...

This is not the first time someone has died because of this man and his antics. "Accessory"
comes to mind.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/2/13 7:47Profile
ZekeO
Member



Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re:

sheez!! From the size of that crowd, if he was sitting at the back and wanted to respond to the healing meassage he would have to have been a fit bloke just to get to the front before they wrapped the whole thing up. :-)


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2005/2/13 14:12Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

Crsscheck

Quote:

I don't think so. What is a 'healing ministry'?
And don't get me wrong, not an accusation and your "(not sure who)" is telling. Am not sure either, because where do we have any account of such a thing in scripture, even in 'principle'?

Did Jesus have a "healing ministry" as such?



Jesus did heal people of various afflictions did He not? And did He not also say to His disciples that you would do these things and even greater things also? I haven't encountered someone with a healing ministry (someone who has the God-given ability to heal afflictions) but I have heard of them. They may not have a megachurch or anything like that but I have no doubt that there are people out there who have that gift as well as many other kinds of gifts by the Holy Spirit according to God's will.


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Farai Bamu

 2005/2/15 1:33Profile





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