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Greg will we hear from people who have actually paid a price to follow Jesus? The question is not meant to offend. But persecution is more of an experience than s theology.

Bear.

 2012/6/13 18:13
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Greg will we hear from people who have actually paid a price to follow Jesus? The question is not meant to offend. But persecution is more of an experience than s theology.



Great question dear brother. This is really an event where I am getting some leaders in the body of Christ in North America who know God and hear His Spirit, who are not concerned with being popular but doing God's will. These one's are being led of God's Spirit and hearing His voice of a coming persecution to North America.

So in that context we want these men to speak this to the larger body of Christ. I do not shun away at any brothers and sister that have suffered in many other countries and their testimonies have been tremendous to warn us of what the cost of the cross truly is. Yet their warnings have not fully moved the church where it needs to be. I pray that the voice of God through these preachers will.

As much as we want to bring brothers like brother Yun and others sadly this can just entertain christians here and not sober them to the reality that this is coming open them.

So in that spirit and burden I felt the Lord lead to these men. Who can speak as "one of us" who have heard God.

I hope that makes sense to you brother.


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 2012/6/13 18:27Profile
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 Re: Upcoming SermonIndex.net Simulcast 2012: The Church And Coming Persecution - Oct

Hi all,
I got to say that I am not fully with you on this one.
It sounds very vague-we may or may not be in the end times sort of thing.
Is Steve Gallagher or Brian Long for instance going to say we are in the end times and the apostasy is just around the corner or is he going to just preach about the end times apostasy and hint that it is coming soon.If you are saying persecution is coming nail your colours to the mast and say when.If you are predicting or prophesying persecution dont be vague.

What about the 7th speaking session how god deals with apostasy and how God has a plan for the end which results in a win for the people of God.
I have no doubt that America is in a bad spiritual state but that doesn't mean it is for sure heading for persecution(that it probably deserves)If our great God gave us what we deserved ................enough said
And I am also sure God will deal with whole tv evangelist thing going on in the west..
I cant help thinking that alot of the persecution talk has to do with peoples rapture view that we are to go through the tribulation and people misunderstanding the difference between persecution/tribulations and the " the great tribulation".
If the speakers are so certain of persecutions give specifics I think we deserve that,
Yours Staff




 2012/6/13 19:36Profile
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I cant help thinking that alot of the persecution talk has to do with peoples rapture view that we are to go through the tribulation and people misunderstanding the difference between persecution/tribulations and the " the great tribulation".



That clearly is something that will be addressed. Many hold a theology that immunizes them from suffering especially any endtimes suffering. Also I believe many of the speakers will speak on suffering as biblical. Also giving church history examples.

The simulcast is going to be constructive and done with pastors hearts and not just a conference to speak down to anyone in the church in the west.

Persecution is normal for the church it was born in martyrdom and will end in martyrdom. I believe this is one of the many calls from God's heart for the church to start meeting and being the church that will be ready for a coming persecution.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2012/6/13 19:41Profile









 Re:

Greg your answer makes sense. Thank you for responding. God grant we hear the message of these brothers. Keeping the conference in my prayers.

Besr.

 2012/6/13 20:06
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Hi Greg,
You are assuming that it will end in martyrdom and I would be suprized if their are no martyrs.The Church will end the way it began with revival(if we want to use that word) and we already have martyrs around the world.I dont want to hear pastors hearts alone, if they are predicting persecution spell it out,don't sit on the fence when and where.I still hazard a guess and would say most of the speakers are post tribulation rapture believers.(which may or may not be correct,to me not)
I am not saying that their isnt a persecution around the corner but it sounds like guess work to me.
The doctrine of pre tribulation rapture does not immunize anyone from suffering (this is an old wives tale)I would like the to see the opposite view dealt with as well namely that alot of people are believing that God offers no protection against persecution and that he wont show his power.
That been said it doesn't mean that pre trib will be correct.
I am not going out looking for martyrdom but if that is what God has for me,so be it.
I hope that the conference will be balanced but I think that will be difficult,
Yours Staff

(Persecution is normal for the church it was born in martyrdom and will end in martyrdom. I believe this is one of the many calls from God's heart for the church to start meeting and being the church that will be ready for a coming persecution.)

 2012/6/13 20:20Profile









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HI Staff, you wrote..............


"I would like the to see the opposite view dealt with as well namely that alot of people are believing that God offers no protection against persecution and that he wont show his power."

About 80% of Christendom in America are of the pre trib rap view, so it has had ample airing. Of course it was made an even more popular view by the left behind series. If you know something of the history of the Church for the last 2000 years, persecution was the normal state and no charge was ever made against God that He could not protect His people. All of the Apostles were persecuted and killed bar John, who was certainly pesecuted and tortured though. Our lives have been bought with a price and our focus is not being protected in this world, but being about the Masters business and of course this brings the attention of the enemy. As for naming times and specifics, well no man knows the day or the hour but we are called to know the season. If there is a red sky tonight then we know that the weather will be nice tomorrow, but how many can truly discern the signs of the times even although the Lord commends us to do just that.............bro Frank

 2012/6/13 23:36
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 Re:

Hi Appolus,
No I think you miss my point,I dont want the pre trib view to get anymore airing.What I would like aired is the excesses of the post trib view which is basic doom and gloom preaching.
Also we have preachers speaking about a coming persecution but wont say when.Thats an easy thing to do.They are hinting that it is the end times persecution but wont commit to that either.No man Knows the day or hour only of the lords return,if preachers are saying there is a coming persecution then they should have an idea when other wise they are just the same as the false revivals.
It is easy as a christian to look at whats happening at the moment and think things are getting really bad.The natural extension of this thinking is persecution is coming.
American Christianity looking from the outside looks like it deserves what it gets,however if God gave us what we deserve all the time then we would be in a bad way.
Yours Staff

 2012/6/14 17:20Profile









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I wonder if believers in Iran or N. Korea hold to a pretrib view. Someone said a number of believers in China held to a pretrib rapture prior to the communist takeover. They believed they would be taken away from persecution and martyrdom. After a number of believers were martyred many Chinese who claimed Jesus turned away from him. This may be why the Chinese church puts much emphasis teaching followers of Christ will suffer for him. The Chinese don't call it persecution. They call it identification with Christ.

When Jesus said many will fall away from the faith in the end times. Will this be a lot of pretribbers.

Bearmaster.

 2012/6/14 19:39









 Re:

Churches need to teach suffering for Christ comes as a result of following him. Failure to teach such will not prepare the believer for persecution. Teaching a prretrib rapture only compounds he problem.

Bear.

 2012/6/14 20:07





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