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 Re: Speaking of being broken before the throne...



2Ti 1:15 This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes. [just for two]


2Co 11:23 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.
2Co 11:24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.
2Co 11:25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;
2Co 11:26 In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;
2Co 11:27 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.
2Co 11:28 Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.
2Co 11:29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not?
2Co 11:30 If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities.


2Co 12:5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.
2Co 12:6 For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.
2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
2Co 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, "My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness."

Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2Co 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.
2Co 12:11 I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing.
2Co 12:12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

 2012/6/8 10:58









 Re: Speaking of being broken before the throne...



Heb 11:32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
Heb 11:33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
Heb 11:34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
Heb 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
Heb 11:36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
Heb 11:38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.


 2012/6/8 11:03
BroRaymond
Member



Joined: 2012/6/7
Posts: 16


 Re: Speaking of being broken before the throne...

I know, with me, I pray often that God will place me in a situation which makes me uncomfortable or forced to choose between yielding my members to the flesh and being impatient, angry etc, or yielding to the spirit and bearing the fruit of the spirit and as He brings those situations into my life and I see how I respond I can gauge if I am in my flesh or not. YOU, can do nothing apart from Christ. Just look to Him often and daily and ask Him to live through you and to break you. He will, believe that He will do not be faithless and let Him do it. You are crucified with Christ nevertheless you live yet not you but Christ liveth in you and the life which you now live in the flesh you live by faith of the Son of God who loved you and gave His life for you. The question is...why do you think you need to be more broken? So you can be more spiritual in appearance? Is Christ not sufficient for you? Don't look to your own garments they are dung. I Love you sweet Christian may He finish the work He began in you. May you be filled with the glory of His presence daily. Remember you are COMPLETE IN HIM!


_________________
Raymond

 2012/6/8 11:13Profile









 Re:



Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Heb 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.


Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.


 2012/6/8 11:21
Blayne
Member



Joined: 2012/5/27
Posts: 274


 Re:

Hi! Heydave

First of all, you're observation of my comments is absolutely correct. I should not have stated them so rudely. I sincerely apologize to you for my behavior/response.

Heydave, we all have emerged from different pasts and experiences and with different needs.
Speaking for myself, I was not needing God to reveal Himself to me as a 'stern taskmaster'. I was needing a loving Father.
There are others who needed God to reveal Himself as the 'origin of all life' and still others needing to perceive Him as 'king' over their lives and circumstances.
That's what the family of God is: each different but yet a unity of the manifold wisdom of God.

So, sometimes I don't have much tolerance for those insisting that I perceive God as something other than how I perceive Him to be. This is not an excuse; it's simply a confession.

There is the age-old saying that "opposites attract" and I suspect that there is a reason for that. Most people are not seeking a partner who is a clone of themselves. Rather, they are seeking someone who compliments them; someone who possesses that which they do not possess for themselves.
So, it could be said that I was seeking the face of God to be Fatherly because that was the deepest emotional lack in my life at the time.

After reading your comments to my earlier reply to you, I realized that I must consciously make room for those who might be searching and need other attributes of God.

Again, I give you my apology.

But all that said, I would like to remind you that the primary attribute of God is self expressed in the Scripture saying: "God is love", 1John 4:8. While it may be true that we will need and discover Him in a variety of ways, we must return to the self proclaimed description of Himself. Love is the very face of God! His love is the substance of His presence embracing our inner being.


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by Heydave on 2012/6/8 7:18:19
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 2012/6/8 11:37Profile
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

Hi Blayne,

Thank you for your gracious reply.
You wrote: "Heydave, we all have emerged from different pasts and experiences and with different needs.
Speaking for myself, I was not needing God to reveal Himself to me as a 'stern taskmaster'. I was needing a loving Father.
There are others who needed God to reveal Himself as the 'origin of all life' and still others needing to perceive Him as 'king' over their lives and circumstances.
That's what the family of God is: each different but yet a unity of the manifold wisdom of God."

I can relate to this. During the early years of my conversion I also needed to know this Fatherhood of God (and still do) and the emphasis of this time was on God's love. I could not understand why other (older) christians were having such a hard time! But in time God as a loving Father moved in to dicipline me when required and put me in situations that would cause me to grow up and mature. So my perspective is still of God as my loving father, but also understand in this role He is comitted to producing the character of Christ in me. I still have a way to go yet!

Blessings.


_________________
Dave

 2012/6/8 12:02Profile









 Re:

Heydave writes.........

"There is too much 'ego' in the church. I have known a number of saints who have this brokeness and the sweetness of the Lord is evident in their lives. Far too many others who think that brokeness is a strange thing display their own ego and pride."

Amen Dave for that and your other comments on this thread, I find myself in acomplete agreement. It was noticable that Blayne dod not comment on the people that you gave him as examples of suffering and brokenness. I think too of Peter, who was most certainly broken of his pride and had returned to his fishing until Jesus came to him.

I think of how the Lord is glorified in our sufferings. I think of how we have been called to enter into the sufferings of the Lord in order to participate in the Kingdom. I know that He is glorified in my weaknesses and infirmities.

Brokenness to me started when I prayed this prayer, before the throne about four years after coming to Jesus " Lord, whatever it takes for me to be useful to you in this world." This prayer flowed out of an all consuming desire to worship and serve Him and a realisation of how far I fell short. I could sense how profound this was. That was 16 years ago. And like the temple, not one stone has been left unturned. My life, my goals , my aspirations have been stripped away, piece by piece until I can find no joy anywhere apart from in His arms and in His presence. He is my joy, He is my peace, He is my sanity He is everything.

To pray for brokenness is to invite God to dismantle your life, it is a yielding, the Holy Spirit is a gentleman and He neither forces nor compels any of us to take up the cross, we must decide that for ourselves. There is a war between the flesh and the Spirit. You can either ask to be put on the front lines of this war or you can dwell somewhere in the rear, its entirely up to each of us. You can stand on the front lines with your eyes lifted upwards to Jesus and have your flesh destroyed, or you can be somewhere behind the front lines, its our own choice...........bro Frank

 2012/6/8 12:17
Blayne
Member



Joined: 2012/5/27
Posts: 274


 Re:

Hi! Heydave

You were very gracious to accept my apology so kindly. Thank you!

Funny thing ... when I read your reply saying, "During the early years of my conversion I also needed to know this Fatherhood of God (and still do) and the emphasis of this time was on God's love", I thought to myself, "This is exactly the opposite of how things were for me".

When I first heard the Gospel, God was introduced to me as a 'taskmaster' and I spent many years trying to fit myself into that image of Him. I read every Christian self-help book there was and spent an inordinate amount of time excavating my navel; preoccupied with dyin'-an'-killin' every perceived nuisance of self. I was an eager student of Watchman Nee theology and followed after the discipleship doctrines and anything else that seemed to hold promise of discovering the depths of God. I chased anyone/everyone who claimed to hold the secret of knowing the face of God.

All of these miserably failed me.

It took me nearly twenty years of chasing God through a labyrinth of murky teachings and pretentious preachers before I discovered that I was pursuing a God that never existed ... at least the God who was introduced to me.

The words of Scripture that spoke to me were, "Anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him".
I realized that I didn't really know God ... what He was like and how He behaved.
So, I set out to find the true face of God.
It took me about another ten years of searching to discover who God is and what He is like. How He behaves and acts. And, when I found Him, I also found myself too.
For the first time in my life, I could sit confidently on His lap and chat with Him unreservedly. He told me things which were unimaginably splendid both about Himself and about His faith in me.


=========================
by Heydave on 2012/6/8 9:02:29
=========================

 2012/6/8 12:33Profile









 Re: Speaking of being broken before the throne...

Quote:
NateMarshall wrote: "With that in mind, I want to ask: how has God brought you to a place of brokenness? I know the scriptures, I've studied the prayers of the prophets and the encounters with God in the biblical narratives (Abraham, Jacob, Isaiah, Paul, etc.,etc.) and I've got to say that more than ever, I desperately want the presence of God to overwhelm me. I want to be broken before him, but I look at my life and I know that I'm not at a place of brokenness yet. This isn't some legalistic trip I'm putting myself on, or a quest to conquer condemnation; this is a desire of mine.



Brother Nate, I truly appreciated your opening post and that's why I posted the Scriptures that I posted.

Brother, our walk is a "faith" walk and what you posted in the OP is something that needs to be your prayer in your heart and not in public ... if you know what I mean - and I do not say this in condemnation of you posting your heart on here but "the better way" is to keep all prayers that concern "self" - all of our deepest personal prayers kept "personal" between us and GOD, lest we get tossed to and fro or be lifted up in pride for posting such things.

The heart is a tricky thing [deceitful, to put it Scripturally] ... in that - when we Post 'anything' - whether it be a sermon or our prayers to GOD or our interpretation of things - we can come to believe that "we 'are' what we post" and truly believe in our hearts that 'our post is us', when in reality - our private lives is what we truly are and not the sermons we post or all of other 'words' that we type or speak.

'Words' are just that - 'words'.
A person is not defined by their words but by their "private thoughts" and not even our private prayers - because, we as humans, do not "pray to GOD" half of the "thoughts" that we have in a day ... Unless there's someone here who's 'thoughts' are absolutely Perfect 24/7.

We are what we think in private and not what we post or say to people and can even try to fool GOD with our words in 'prayer'.



To your prayer for brokeness - I only ask this to you, myself and anybody else .... * Are you willing to suffer for His Sake? *

Not for you to answer here - but in your prayer closet.

If you are - just tell Him that and then 'by faith' believe that He knows your heart and will do whatever is necessary to bring you to where He wants you.

"The Living Sacrifice" of Romans 12 is just - 'by faith', laying yourself on His altar and leaving yourself there and go on and SERVE HIM in any way that you can or know to - and better yet, are listening to Him to direct you on what to do minute by minute and just be willing to get your eyes off of yourself and into sacrificial living [as He and His Apostles did] - and see all that comes at you in your obedience to what you feel is His Will for the moment are from His Hand - accepting anything that comes your way as the Romans 8:28 being FOR vs '29'.

If He suffered for us, we need to arm ourselves with the same mind and Know that whatever comes our way is for that purpose of Romans 8:28 for 29. ALL things work toward that Good of conforming us into HIS Image and that is all that we want and should ever want. Not a life of comfort, luxury or whatever that's focused on "us" but only what will focus on and bring Glory to HIM Alone.

Talk is cheap, as they say - but taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ and not "deceiving ourselves with our public words", is a task in and of itself. Jesus only 'thought' THE WORD - His Every Thought Was The Word of/from GOD and we can as well, if we 'want' to.


I can type or speak many of my own words or post many sermons - but unless my 'every' thought is taken captive to the obedience of Christ - than I am just the chiefest of hypocrits, if what comes out of my keyboard or mouth is not what's really on my mind - what I truly think about during the day.


Besides - When Jesus was here - He only spoke The Word and so should we.
I feel very much put off by the human words anymore. I feel more and more strongly that we'll all stand before Him and have to give an account for all of 'our' many words and our neglect of the only Words that ever mattered - HIS.
The 'fronts' we put on before people to make ourselves seem something that we're not in the personal recesses of our thought life. "As a man 'thinketh', so is he."

We have the personal obligation of a 'Personal Relationship' with Christ, by faith in Him alone, and that is loving Him enough to 'get our eyes off of ourselves' and trusting only Him and His Words to be of any value.

He knows your heart of hearts and the very depths of each one of our hearts. He knows what to do and what He has planned for each of us from before the foundations of the earth - with the "willing" and dying to self is dying to 'self'. Eyes OFF of self and unto Him and just laying our lives down as a living sacrifice.
Faith is looking Only To Him and while our eyes are On Him, we'd find it hard to think evil or do evil when seated in Heavenly places with Him and have His mind.


Php 2:4-8 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of GOD, thought it not robbery to be equal with GOD: but made Himself of 'no reputation', and took upon Him the form of a 'servant', and was made in the likeness of men: and being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, and became 'obedient' unto death, even the death of the cross.


Amen, words are cheap unless they're His.


Pray one for another, bearing one another's burdens and thus fulfill the law of Christ. Thanks!

See you when we See Him Whom we Love more than 'life'.


 2012/6/8 12:55
NateMarshall
Member



Joined: 2012/6/5
Posts: 19


 Re:

Thank you, everyone, for your love.

I think that what was said about opposites attracting is totally true. I was raised in the church and have only ever known God as my loving Father, but have never seen Him as my fiercely holy king. I've never had that Isaiah or Abraham encounter that leaves me breathless and on my face. I was never a "bad kid" that "needed Jesus". I was raised in church and always had Him, and although my sin is just as offensive as the rest of those who were "bad kids" and I desperately need the salvation of God myself, I've never fully seen it. It's been an intellectual understanding, not a heart-piercing truth. I'm tired of that.

Thank you, brethren, for the loving rebukes. They've been refreshing and insightful, although they sting some. May God richly bless each of you!! I thank God for the wisdom he gives. I need it!!


_________________
Nathaniel Marshall

 2012/6/8 17:15Profile





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