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wijnand
Member



Joined: 2006/3/31
Posts: 112


 Re:

Brother, I am in the same position. I want to know God the way I don't know Him yet (even though I am born again). I want to have such real fellowship that fills me with His presence.

The only thing that's between me and God is my own self. Tozer in his book (like you said) talks about this, and one of the things he is saying is about our own self, own righteousness, own dependence, own control, own will is standing between us and a Spirit filled life.

So we have no other option then to God to God in word and prayer, to seek His face with all our hearts and ask Him to do the work of killing our 'I' and making empty for Himself!

God bless you brother!
Wijnand


_________________
Wijnand de Ridder

 2012/6/8 2:44Profile
Coolwater
Member



Joined: 2012/3/14
Posts: 23


 Re:



You have such a pure heart, and a geniune desire to seek the face of God. I can go on and on, as you can see it is getting late. I will however return. I wanted to correct if you will a statment you made in the pursuit of god.

(prayer + fasting = brokeness)(prayer + fasting = revival)

You must first acknowledge who he is.. The brokeness comes as he begins to purge you. Its a process it does not happen overnight. It is called the refiners fire..


You are not alone!

 2012/6/8 3:01Profile
Blayne
Member



Joined: 2012/5/27
Posts: 274


 Re:

Hi! NateMarshall

I'm feeling very happy and blessed after reading your comments.
Now that you're no longer preoccupied with excavating your navel, you will be better able to keep your eyes on Jesus and His kingdom. I have every confidence that your Christian experience will begin to mature and progress exceedingly well. Yes, I thank Jesus along with you!

==========================
by NateMarshall on 2012/6/7 23:13:08

Thank you, everyone, for your feedback.

==========================

 2012/6/8 3:38Profile
Blayne
Member



Joined: 2012/5/27
Posts: 274


 Re:

Hi! Wijnand

I read your comments here with much sadness.
The first thought that came into my mind was, "Well, easy tell that this guy has never been married before".

You wrote: "So we have no other option then to go to God in word and prayer, to seek His face with all our hearts and ask Him to do the work of killing our 'I' and making empty for Himself!"

You were doing great until you dropped the lead balloon of needing to ask God to do the work of killing your ego and somehow purging you to make room for Himself.

Well, brother, you'll be waiting an eternity for your ideas to produce any fruit which the Lord might be pleased with.

I guess you've never been married; or else you've never understood that an earthly marriage is a visible picture of the invisible relationship you have with Jesus.

When a married couple awaken in the morning, do they remove their faces? Substituting their identity with an image which they perceive their spouses would prefer? Do they begin self inventory to confirm that their spouses still has reason to remain married to them? Are they busy losing the selves that their spouses fell in love with in the first instance?
Hardly likely.

An insecure married relationship breeds fear and insecurity. It creates needless tensions and conflict.
So, why do you insist on doing these absurd things in your relationship with Jesus?

Jesus not only loves you the way you are ... moreover, He loves you for who you are to become!
But Jesus has no desire to change the person per se. He simply desires that His followers align their thoughts and desires towards Him with equal passion and dedication as His own towards them.

Of course, when His followers do that, they are not being emptied ... but filled. Not killing the ego, but rather obediently surrendering it.

If you insist on thinking like your comments here, you are asking to enter into an abusive relationship and God wants nothing of that sort of thing.

============================
by wijnand on 2012/6/7 23:44:22
Brother, I am in the same position. I want to know God the way I don't know Him yet (even though I am born again). I want to have such real fellowship that fills me with His presence.
The only thing that's between me and God is my own self. Tozer in his book (like you said) talks about this, and one of the things he is saying is about our own self, own righteousness, own dependence, own control, own will is standing between us and a Spirit filled life.
So we have no other option then to God to God in word and prayer, to seek His face with all our hearts and ask Him to do the work of killing our 'I' and making empty for Himself!
God bless you brother!
Wijnand
============================

 2012/6/8 4:13Profile
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

Without brokeness the glory of God will not be seen.

There is too much 'ego' in the church. I have known a number of saints who have this brokeness and the sweetness of the Lord is evident in their lives. Far too many others who think that brokeness is a strange thing display their own ego and pride.

All the examples in scripture of men that God used were broken in one way or another. Consider Abraham, Moses, Job, Jacob, Paul and Peter.

It is not that God breaks our spirit or our individuality, but He does break our self confidence, self esteem, self righteousness, self love, self strength,etc, etc...

I agree with Tozer when he says that we cannot break or wound ourslves, but God will wound us. This may be needed to bring us to the place of reliance on God's strength. Is this not what God did with Jacob with his hip, or Paul with his thorn in the flesh, or Peter when he denied His Lord?
This wounding may be a physical thing like Paul or a wounding of our heart like Peter. But one thing is sure, if it is of the Lord then the result will be a decrease of our ego and a greater dependance upon the Lord's grace and strength and thereby His glory is displayed and not our glory.


_________________
Dave

 2012/6/8 6:15Profile
Blayne
Member



Joined: 2012/5/27
Posts: 274


 Re:

Hi! Heydave

You wrote:
"It is not that God breaks our spirit or our individuality, but He does break our self confidence, self esteem, self righteousness, self love, self strength,etc, etc..."

On one hand you state that God does not break our spirit or individuality while, on the other, stating that He only breaks our self-confidence, self-esteem, self-righteousness, self-love, self-stength, etc, etc ... "

The question you left me with was:
What would be remaining of our spirit and individuality if God should break all the other attributes which you have listed?

Sometimes I wonder if I might be doomed to be a bird-watcher for the rest of my days. I say this because there seems to be far too many religious parrots in the Christian family who have an astonishing compulsion to chant the burlesque cries of the false teachers.

The religious parrots seem to have not learned, "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world".

Otherwise, they would not be so eager to chant the fraudulent pious nonsense being peddled in these days and no one would need to be bird-watchers.


=================================
by Heydave on 2012/6/8 3:15:32
Without brokeness the glory of God will not be seen.
=================================

 2012/6/8 8:36Profile
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

by Heydave on 2012/6/8 0:15:32

Without brokeness the glory of God will not be seen.

There is too much 'ego' in the church. I have known a number of saints who have this brokeness and the sweetness of the Lord is evident in their lives. Far too many others who think that brokeness is a strange thing display their own ego and pride.

All the examples in scripture of men that God used were broken in one way or another. Consider Abraham, Moses, Job, Jacob, Paul and Peter.

It is not that God breaks our spirit or our individuality, but He does break our self confidence, self esteem, self righteousness, self love, self strength,etc, etc...

I agree with Tozer when he says that we cannot break or wound ourslves, but God will wound us. This may be needed to bring us to the place of reliance on God's strength. Is this not what God did with Jacob with his hip, or Paul with his thorn in the flesh, or Peter when he denied His Lord?
This wounding may be a physical thing like Paul or a wounding of our heart like Peter. But one thing is sure, if it is of the Lord then the result will be a decrease of our ego and a greater dependance upon the Lord's grace and strength and thereby His glory is displayed and not our glory.
__________

Thank you for sharing this I very much appreciated what you said here. I think you expressed what being broken before the LORD means. I know that there have been times in which the LORD has used experiences in my own life to help me die to self and live depending on HIM. The need to be in control, to hold on to the reigns instead of relinquishing them was for a long time a struggle for me until the LORD in HIS love and mercy brought me to a place of seeing there is nothing that I can control in this life. I saw how weak I was, HE brought me to a place of being broken in my independent attitude that I carried. I now seek to daily walk dependently upon HIM instead of independently in self!

God bless
mj

 2012/6/8 9:11Profile
Blayne
Member



Joined: 2012/5/27
Posts: 274


 Re:

Hi! Mary Jane

Thank you for your thoughtful Post.
I've read and re-read it a few times now.

I would like to reiterate once again that Jesus does not "wound" His followers as Tozer seems to imply. The explanation for my disagreement is previously stated in this Thread.

Our relationship with Jesus can be compared to the relationship between two spouses. As such, it would be nothing short of an abusive relationship to permit a wounding or deprive the other of their express person.

Eph 5:22-23 equates the relationship of a husband and wife saying: "This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband."

Our relationship with Jesus is not one of domination. Rather, it is one of mutual love and affection which causes us to willingly yield and submit ourselves to Him. We do this without risk of losing ourselves or betraying our individual makeup. We remain whole as individuals while, at the same instance, aligning our desires to become 'one' with His purposes and intents.

I am an identical twin. Even though my twin and I very closely resemble one another physically, our 'selves' remain distinctly different from one another.
It could be said that we Christians are becoming identical twins of Jesus while still retaining our individuality. This is in keeping with the Scripture saying, "but we know that when he appears, we will be like him, for we will see him as he is".


======================
by MaryJane on 2012/6/8 6:11:44
======================

 2012/6/8 9:34Profile
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

Dear Blayne,

Your wrote:"Sometimes I wonder if I might be doomed to be a bird-watcher for the rest of my days. I say this because there seems to be far too many religious parrots in the Christian family who have an astonishing compulsion to chant the burlesque cries of the false teachers".

I was sad to read this! However it does demonstrate what I was saying about 'ego'.

I could have written a long discourse and given many scriptural references to what I wrote, but 1/I don't think you are interested and 2/ It is clear to those who have walked with the Lord for some time this is how he deals with His people. I do pray that you will have a heart that will be open to see these things.

I did give you some references of people written in the bible, but did not give the details. Take time to read the lives of these saints in scripture and the saints of more recent times and you will see this clearly.

You wrote: "The question you left me with was:
What would be remaining of our spirit and individuality if God should break all the other attributes which you have listed?"

What would be left, would be ourselves as God made us to be; un-selfish, loving God and others before self, confidence in God not self, having His righteousness not our own, humble and relying on God's strength and wisdom.
Does that not seem a good thing? I think it does!

Blessings to you.

Edit: Just found this link to an article by Zac Poonen about brokeness. http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=40832&forum=34&2


_________________
Dave

 2012/6/8 10:18Profile
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

A.W. Tozer said, "Don't try to wound yourself. If you try to wound yourself, you won't get any place. 'Faithful are the wounds of a friend.' If you try to wound yourself, you will only give in to the flesh. Come to Him, and let Him do the wounding. Nobody can teach you this wound, and you cannot inflict it yourself."

__________________

Blayne for me personally I completely get what Tozer is saying here. This is my understanding :) In my flesh I was a control nut. I wanted to control everything around me including people when I could not, well lets just say I was not the nicest of people to be around. Anyway during that time in my life no one could have told me these things about myself that I would have listened to, I was filled with a whole bunch of self. I could not have opened my own eyes either to see this sin in myself so GOD used some very painful events and situations to bring me to a place to show me just how sinful my controlling behavior and attitude was. Was it painful, YES! Did I feel wounded? YES and YES! in self for sure I did. I could not have shown myself these things, I could not have learned them from another because of self so only the HOLY SPIRIT could reveal these things to me and that is what I believe Tozer is talking about :) Honestly I give thanks for those times of chastisement from the LORD, sure it feels like being wounded to self and the flesh but in the spirit knowing HE is drawing me closer to HIM I give thanks. I don't mind loosing "self" cause its filled with sin and all kinds of yuck that keeps me from my BELOVED, like it says its in the Bible "no longer I that live but CHRIST who lives in me," that is the attitude and heart I want to have.

Thanks for sharing your heart here with me. I think I understand what you are saying and yet I get what Tozer is saying too and I see the benefit to what he said. :)

God Bless
mj

 2012/6/8 10:22Profile





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