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Discussion Forum : General Topics : nature of scriptures

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proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: Blayne

Blayne wrote "Hi! ProudPapa
Actually, I think some readers might misinterpret what I was trying to say.
I certainly don't believe that there are "contradictions" in the Bible. Absolutely not!
There are only seeming-to-be contradictions; things which might appear at first glance to be contradictory for some people; especially for those Christians just beginning their spiritual journey.
Keep Smiling!"

Blayne, I knew you had a solid view of inspiration, It is obvious since you are not just another theolgy puppet or walking commentary.
What I wrote about contridictions was not in response to your post.

I always look forward to what you post.

 2012/6/7 23:10Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: lindi1208

Great points

RE: lindi1208 wrote" Amen Pilgrim and Annie! Jesus's view of the scriptures was different in John 5 v 38- 39 Jesus said to the Pharisees "You search the Scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is these that bear witness of Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me, that you may have life.""

Great verse, I have had some use this verse though to try to undermine scriptures authority and just say that believing in Jesus is all that matters. I find it interesting what the verses right after say:

John 5 v 38-47

38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
(from this verse you would think they believed scripture but lets read on)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

41 I receive not honour from men.
(Jesus did not care what Orthodoxy taught in his day, He was not afraid to be labled a Heretic)
42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.

43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
(this was an important verse, are we worried about reading the scripture in the box of orthodoxy!! afraid to be labeled a heretic!)
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.( by this you would think that they really believed the scripture the old testament,but lets read on)

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
(He now tells them that even though they claimed that they believed in Moses (old testament scripture) that they realy did not,they prided themselves in there view of inspiration, But they did not listen to it personally, they always had there tradition there theolgy there doctrines there commentaries there talmud that explained away all the passages.

47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

(this last verse is very powerful meditate apon it)


RE: indi1208 wrote "Again I am reminded 2 Cor 3 v 6 for" the letter killeth but the Spirit gives life". Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit therefore His view or take on scriptures was different to what was the norm. Most of the time after teaching men responded by saying His sayings are hard!"

GREAT POINT. BLESSINGS!!!




 2012/6/7 23:50Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 they were astonished at his doctrine

Was the Originals Of the Book of Moses available in Jesus Day , Or just copys of copys ??

How many Years from Moses to Jesus Day??

How Did Jesus go about to prove the Resurrection of the Dead to the sadducees???


Lets slay the Wicked Head of Historical Criticism!!!

 2012/6/8 0:32Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: they were astonished at his doctrine

Inerrancy

Quote from what you should know about inerrancy by Charles C. Ryrie p.58
/If we find that He(Jesus) only used or taught in a general way about the Bible,then we may conclude that He believed in its reliability generally. If on the other hand,we find that He relied on the minutia of the Bible as accurate,then we must conclude that He believed it to be inerrant down to its details./


So what think ye, Did Jesus use the Bible Generally or trust in its minutia details???

 2012/6/9 13:35Profile
Blayne
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Joined: 2012/5/27
Posts: 274


 Re: nature of scriptures

Hi! ProudPapa

Maybe the answer to your question can be found within yet another question:
Did the writers of the Scriptures compose their narratives in something near a trance-like state of direct divine inspiration or did the writers compose them using the insights and knowledge which they had obtained for themselves at the time?

======================
nature of scriptures |
How important is the jot or tittle of Scripture??
Did Jesus Have the same View of the inspiration of scripture as was common in his day??
I ask for this not to be a Westcott and Hort or Orgien disscussion but rather keep it scriptural
======================

 2012/6/9 22:46Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 HI Blayne

HI, Blayne thank you for the thought provoking question.

Having not meditated deeply on this thought I will throw out What first comes to mind.

RE: Blayne asked "Did the writers of the Scriptures compose their narratives in something near a trance-like state of direct divine inspiration or did the writers compose them using the insights and knowledge which they had obtained for themselves at the time?"

We can not say that the Bible is totaly writen from a means of mechanical dictation, in that we can see Each of the Writers own personalitys whithin there writings, Such as a different personality from Paul and Peter or from Paul to John. Yet It all is of the same Spirit and the exact thoughts and even words as what God Him self Inspired.

Some verses that come to mind are 1 Peter ch1:10-12

/10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:/

So Peter seems to Be speaking of the old testament prophets here, He says they prophesied of the grace that should come and than had to go back and enquired and searched diligently through there own writings to try to understand the grace that should come. They wrote of things that where deeper than there own understanding could comprehend when they wrote them.

11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

These verses are deep, They are speaking of the Spirit of Christ which was in them Having them write of things that there comprehension was unable to fully grasp, It reminds me of First John where he says we need no one to teach us because of the anointing in us knows all things,yet our minds seem to not understand all things yet our spirit that is anointed does?? Deep stuff.. very unorthodox.

//12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.//

So this seems to be saying that they never fully grasped there own writings because it was not revealed for them but for us.
It goes on to say that even the angels desire to look into these writings, indicating that they do not even have full comprehension of the depths of these writings.


God never departs the waters untill we against all hope, first step in and have full confidence that he will.






 2012/6/9 23:53Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 insignificant or significant omissions

Gods version
psalms 91 v11 v12
11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, (to keep thee in all thy ways).
12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone

The Devils Version
11 He shall give his angels charge concerning thee:(???)
12 and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.


 2012/6/10 0:39Profile
Blayne
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Joined: 2012/5/27
Posts: 274


 Re: HI Blayne

Hi! ProudPapa

As always, your comments are exceedingly well thought out and very much scriptural. That's what I so appreciate when reading your Posts.

Yes, it's indeed just as you stated it: "They wrote of things that were deeper than their own understanding could comprehend when they wrote them."

This is how/why, for instance, that the apparent contradiction occurred between 1Chron 21:14 and 2Sam 24:1 (which I mentioned previously in this Thread). The writer of Chronicles had more insight concerning the Kingdom of Heaven (invisible world) than the writer of Samuel and therefore correctly identified the instigator.

We can detect this anomaly throughout the Old Testament because, as the scriptures testify and which you yourself reiterated, "So this seems to be saying that they never fully grasped there own writings because it was not revealed for them but for us."

Now I will give you yet another question to ponder which is somewhat relational to this same subject:
Was it God who killed Ananias and Sapphira? (Acts 5:1-11).

==========================
by proudpapa on 2012/6/9 20:53:07
HI, Blayne thank you for the thought provoking question.
Having not meditated deeply on this thought I will throw out What first comes to mind.
RE: Blayne asked "Did the writers of the Scriptures compose their narratives in something near a trance-like state of direct divine inspiration or did the writers compose them using the insights and knowledge which they had obtained for themselves at the time?"
We can not say that the Bible is totaly writen from a means of mechanical dictation, in that we can see Each of the Writers own personalitys whithin there writings, Such as a different personality from Paul and Peter or from Paul to John. Yet It all is of the same Spirit and the exact thoughts and even words as what God Him self Inspired.
==========================

 2012/6/10 0:51Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: Blayne

Hi Blayne, I always look forward to what you or Pilgrim777 have posted!

RE: Blayne wrote //This is how/why, for instance, that the apparent contradiction occurred between 1Chron 21:14 and 2Sam 24:1 (which I mentioned previously in this Thread). The writer of Chronicles had more insight concerning the Kingdom of Heaven (invisible world) than the writer of Samuel and therefore correctly identified the instigator.//

You make a good point here, I think it is needful also to keep in mind That these things where inspired exactly how God wants us to recieve them. There Are Many very intellectual and scholarly Men that Loose there faith over versus like this, Because they do not understand the nature of Faith nor the nature of Scriptures,they do not relize that God has delibertly willed these seeming Contridictions to throw off the faith of the high minded and wise of this world. But for those of faith it is no contridiction at all,It actuly openes more awarness to the ways in which God works, By faith it openes up another deminsion of scripture that the sceptic is locked out of. We know from the Book of Job how God is in control and what tools he so uses to accomplish his will.
Both of the writers are correct.

Are you sure that it was the writer of Chronicles that had more insight??





RE: Blayne wrote /Now I will give you yet another question to ponder which is somewhat relational to this same subject:
Was it God who killed Ananias and Sapphira? (Acts 5:1-11)./

I am still pondering, the first thought off of the top of my head was yes,but when I read it, It did not clearly say that, It seems that when Peter spoke to them, That his Words where so anointed that They cut them so deep inward that the fear or panic killed them. Umm?? It seems as though it depends on what level we are speaking??
I have to admitt I am stumped on where you are going with this,But looking foward to it

I have to ask again for you Blayne or anyone else reading this.
How did Jesus go about to prove the Resurrection of the Dead to the sadducees???

they were astonished at his doctrine!!



.

 2012/6/11 0:06Profile
EverestoSama
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Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


 Re:

Quote:
The writer of Chronicles had more insight concerning the Kingdom of Heaven (invisible world) than the writer of Samuel and therefore correctly identified the instigator.



Sorry bro, this doesn't add up. Reasoning of this sort flaws Scripture, thus making what's said a lie. Saying that says that the writer of Samuel stated something about God as fact that actually was not accurate, and in doing so undermines the integrity of the entire book. What if every other time something that was declared as God's doing in second Samuel, it was in fact the devil, and the author didn't have the right insight to discern between the two? This is a dangerous road to go down. Can you see why reasoning in this fashion whilst claiming 100% inerrancy of Scripture can't be reconciled mutually?

What was being communicated was something much deeper here. The truth is, that both Satan AND God were the perpetrators. As shown in other instances throughout Scripture, Satan is still subject to God even though he is His enemy. The Lord used Satan to accomplish His will. He's done it multiple times throughout Scripture. Both accounts are 100% accurate, and reveal something about the other towards the larger picture.

 2012/6/11 0:24Profile





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