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rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Sree I understand some of what you are saying but on this issue the judges are the one's over ruling the majority of the society of people who you say are so godless but it seems to me on this one the majority of the society of people are more in line with God's moral standard of decency.

 2012/6/6 16:20Profile









 Re:

Sree respectfully it is not the political ideology that is the issue here. It is satan attacking the people of Christ through the political institution.

You can look at a nation like China which is Marxist. They persecute Christians. Or a nation like Iran which is Islamic. They persecute Christians. What of your own nation of India? There are Hindu extremist who persecute Christians.

So it is not the political or religious ideology that is the driving force of persecution. It is the devil himself. I believe Rev.12:17 conveys this.

Bearnaster.

 2012/6/6 17:33
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1734


 Re:

Quote:

Sree I understand some of what you are saying but on this issue the judges are the one's over ruling the majority of the society of people who you say are so godless but it seems to me on this one the majority of the society of people are more in line with God's moral standard of decency.



I am not saying the people are Godless, the system the people have choosen - Democracy is not God's way. I understand that there is a majority now in this society who are against Gay laws, but there is a minority who want this law. How in a democratic country can you ignore the voice of a minority saying they are not important?

The point I am making is, the root cause of all these issues is, Men started deciding what is right for them instead of God deciding it. So what is right for me is not the same for another.


_________________
Sreeram

 2012/6/6 23:47Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

{quote}
I am not saying the people are Godless, the system the people have choosen - Democracy is not God's way. I understand that there is a majority now in this society who are against Gay laws, but there is a minority who want this law. How in a democratic country can you ignore the voice of a minority saying they are not important?

The point I am making is, the root cause of all these issues is, Men started deciding what is right for them instead of God deciding it. So what is right for me is not the same for another.
{/quote}


You say democracy is not God's way but how would you like to see the USA being govern. There are many countries that are not free and many Christians are being persecuted in those countries. There are countries led by a dictatorship, communism, and so forth. There is no country on the earth that is being led under theocracy for this will not happen until the Lord returns to reign.

How do you want the USA to be govern? If you had been here when the US constitution was set up what would you have wanted to see happen? Just what do you think would be a better governing of the people in the USA?

Just wondering...

 2012/6/7 0:48Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4501


 Re:

Just a reminder, but America is not a democracy. It is a "constitutional republic." There is a big difference between the two.

A democracy is most typically identified with "majority rule." The founding fathers feared the concept of "tyranny of the majority," so they established a constitutional republic -- a government of laws that all men would be governed by. There are, of course, democratic elements within a constitutional republic (via elections of representatives and propositions).

In this particular case, the problem isn't "tyranny of the majority" but "tyranny of the minority." The voice of the people, their rights and views have been increasingly assaulted by a small group (or, in this case, a few appointed judges).

As rbanks reminded us, the founding fathers tried to come up with the best form of government at the time. They came out of a constitutional monarchy where the monarch ruled by birth and not by consent. Interestingly, this was a much more efficient and modern form of government at that time. However, the American colonies were concerned about the lack of representation in government and leaders who the people did not consent to.

The Declaration of Independence is an interesting document to read in the context of the times that it was written. It contains a clear rationale for declaring that the American colonies were free and independent (*but united) states that stood apart from the Crown.

Quote:

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.



Now, the Declaration of Independence is not an official, binding government document. It predates the Constitution by more than a decade. However, the founding fathers felt that a constitutional republic would be the most effective form of government to establish the rule of law, provide representation in both government and law and, finally, provide as much liberty to the people without trampling on the rights of a few.

Yet, a "constitutional republic" (which is also the basis of STATE government too) allows for the voice of the people to directly affect law too. This comes in the form of amendments to the Constitution. In the case of California (and, more recently, North Carolina), the people of the state voted to retain the traditional definition of the marriage contract. This was the SECOND time that the people of California voted as such. Yet, both times, appointed judges decided to make this a "equal protection" issue and invoke the 14th Amendment as a reason to say that a Constitutional Amendment is "unconstitutional."

This case is about a definition more than anything else. A small group (homosexuals) wants to redefine the historic terms of a particular contract (marriage) to include their lifestyle (homosexuality). This is not about equal protection -- because they already have the same contractual protections. It is about trying to redefine a term and force all of the people, businesses, government agencies and organizations in the state to embrace their new definition of that term (the "marriage" contract).

When this goes to the Supreme Court, I suspect that the Justices will see this as a contract issue and rule against the activist judges and on behalf of the people of the state who voted to retain the longterm definition and not allow a small group to force others to include them in the definition of that contract.


_________________
Christopher

 2012/6/7 1:53Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1734


 Re:

Quote:

You say democracy is not God's way but how would you like to see the USA being govern. There are many countries that are not free and many Christians are being persecuted in those countries. There are countries led by a dictatorship, communism, and so forth. There is no country on the earth that is being led under theocracy for this will not happen until the Lord returns to reign.



I never said Dictatorship is right. I agree with you there is no country on earth including US that is truly governed by God. And it will not happen until Jesus comes back. So there is no way we can expect laws in any country that are based on God's standards and values. There will be persecutions and we have to endure it. Jesus said the same. So to summarize Gay rights and marriages are inevitable, they will happen. The route that we have taken, we cannot force anyone to obey God's law. There is no nation in this world that is Christian in nature.
Also I do not believe that Church has to get involved in these gay marriage laws.


_________________
Sreeram

 2012/6/7 2:10Profile
Trekker
Member



Joined: 2011/7/29
Posts: 683
northern USA

 Re: Gay Marriage will End up at the Supreme Court

QUOTE: " I don't know how much was done by the church, I was only a child. But it is hard placed to find anything that shows the church was active in stopping abortion. It is seems we are doomed to repeat this same act of apathy and silence."==DBISER




I think this assessment is very unfair. Like you said, you were only a child. There has been a GREAT deal done by the church to try to fight against the abortion industry AND also in the fight against the advance of the sodomites in taking over this country. To say there has been "apathy and silence" is greatly mistaken. I myself have been a member of both national and state Right To Life on the abortion front, and i myself have been outspoken in the media and on a personal level against homosexuality. And i have suffered some consequences for it at times. There have also been people all over the nation who picket against one and the other. Isn't there a group also, called the Westboro Baptist Church that has been picketing military funerals claiming that the deaths of soldiers is God's judgement on this country for homosex and abortion etc? I don't agree with this tactic of their's AT ALL, and i believe they are doing GREAT harm and bringing shame upon the Lord with their lack of compassion for grieving families, but one can hardly accuse THEM of being "apathy and silence". Just an example.

 2012/6/7 6:04Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

amen dbiser ,,is that short for dan biser

if my people who are call by my name will humble them selfs
and seek my face

then i will heal there land

goes some thing like that

furvert prayer scercet,and colective for hours everry day ,for a season

a season of seperation

the seperations is the preperation

casting all our god givern liberts to the bottom of our to do list


and the first ten things on our daily to do list

prayer

prayer

bible medatation

prayer

prayer

bible medatation

prayer

prayer

bible medatation

more prayer

you can fill in the blancks

[ ]


[ [


[ ]


[ ]

[ ]

 2012/6/7 7:02Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7472
Mississippi

 Re: Gay Marriage will End up at the Supreme Court

______________________________________________________________
QUOTE:
"I don't know how much was done by the church, I was only a child. But it is hard placed to find anything that shows the church was active in stopping abortion. It is seems we are doomed to repeat this same act of apathy and silence."
______________________________________________________________

There have been many individuals from a wide range of churches involved in battling this evil. The problem lies in the church itself.

The clergy and laypersons share equal blame, IMHO. The church does not discipline erring members. They stay there and work as leaven, infecting the entire brotherhood.

Some could say that since abortion is bad we keep our babies, and so they did. BUT fornication is still wrong regardless of the outcome.

You have those that do get pregnant but do not want a child so they abort and this is understood by others as justifiable.

You have singles having babies, keeping them and other girls are wooed by their cuteness and you can't say anything negative about a child! So people refrain and the young take it to understand that immorality is not so bad after all. Under all this is a perverted doctrine of forgiveness in action.

How can a church fight against this evil when they allow the purveyors of these evils to entertain them with their music and movies? It is like eating poison and hope you will be the exception in experiencing its consequence. You cannot allow yourself to be entertained by the devil and experience the blessings of the LORD, either individually or corporately.



_________________
Sandra Miller

 2012/6/7 7:19Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3403
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Gay Marriage will End up at the Supreme Court


Quote:
Sree wrote:
My point is Democracy is not God's way. God always appointed Kings to his people, he never let them choose a king. So if you are in a democracy then you will face issues because you are already against God's system. It is better not to expect anything Good from this already corrupt system.

How in a democratic Godless society do you expect a laws to be made based on God's will? It is like requesting Satan to do Good for you.


Actually America is a Republic (this is where the people CHOOSE by voting for our representatives to make policy decisions on our behalf), and America is NOT a democracy. Our Founding Father’s chose this way of governing for America. But politics aside, this system in America has been blessed for over 250 years and God didn’t seem to have a problem with it then, nothing personal Sree but now all of a sudden you come in and tell us this is “not God’s system" when it's been blessed for over 250 years? I cannot agree.

Bro, the system of government in America is NOT the problem, the peoples sins are the problem; there is sin in the camp! It rains on the just and on the unjust whether we live in China, Brazil, England or America and we need to stop blaming and get busy praying.

God bless you,
Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2012/6/7 8:43Profile





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