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proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: TMK

TMK ,Do you see the comparrison that I am making
Research WI-38 and MRC-5

 2012/6/3 16:59Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5355
NC, USA

 Re:

Quote:

"Christians should have nothing to do with vaccinations"

So in your opinion, it is a sin to get your kids (or yourself) vaccinated, or just foolish, or both?

I for one am pretty grateful that the infant mortality rate is a tad better than it was 75 years sgo, when my grandmother and grandfather each lost several siblings to childhood diseases.

[edited for sp.]


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Todd

 2012/6/3 17:01Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5355
NC, USA

 Re:

If I was murdered because the murderer wanted my organs, I suppose i wouldn't want him to get them-- however if I truly loved my neighbor as myself I should not begrudge him my organs-- I am dead after all and I no longer need them.

If I was murdered during a robbery attempt, I wouldnt have a problem at all with others benefiting from my organs.

Who knows- an unbelieving organ donee's life might be extended which would give him greater opportunity to accept the Lord.


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Todd

 2012/6/3 17:21Profile
Tears_of_joy
Member



Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re:

Quote:
So in your opinion, it is a sin to get your kids (or yourself) vaccinated, or just foolish, or both?



Many Christians are uninformed and ignorant. I have been many years. The real question to me is how you will respond after you will be faced with the facts. Will you continue to act foolishly or not, will you stay in ignorance or not. There is plenty information out there, I gave few links as a beginning in my previous post.

Quote:
I for one am pretty grateful that the infact mortality rate is a tad better than it was 75 years sgo, when my grandmother and grandfather each lost several siblings to childhood diseases.



This has nothing to do with vaccination. But mortality rate is better because of other causes. But you will not hear that from mainstream media and pharmaceutical cartel. And they will not tell you about the sicknesses and murders that vaccinations are causing, they will not tell you that their vaccines are the cause of thousands and thousands of autistic and disabled children. Also many of the sicknesses that child can go through in early ages are beneficial, because they will get much better immunity later in their lives. (I remember that similar accounts had John Wesley and George Muller, they were very sick in their young age, but later they had vibrant health). About how they pervert the statistics try to find and watch "Vaccination - The Hidden Truth" it is available online.

 2012/6/3 17:25Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: TMK

Re: TMK wrote ("So in your opinion, it is a sin to get your kids (or yourself) vaccinated, or just foolish, or both?
I for one am pretty grateful that the infant mortality rate is a tad better than it was 75 years sgo, when my grandmother and grandfather each lost several siblings to childhood diseases.")

Now can anyone see why I started this disscussion the way that I did??

Do you believe that Gods blessing is on vaccines made on aborted fetal tissue??

 2012/6/3 17:40Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7460
Mississippi

 Re:

QUOTE:
"Do you believe that Gods blessing is on vaccines made on aborted fetal tissue??"

No.

I see no sin committed by a company using cells or tissue harvested from non-humans, e.g., monkeys.

I have read of pharm companies using cells harvested from umbilical cords from a live birth. To me this is a legitimate because no one is killed in the process.

I do believe polio vaccine is beneficial for mankind. I was born before the mass outbreak of it in the 50s...many children got polio - some died and others were crippled. In later life they developed post-polio syndrome - something my brother-in-law died from two months ago.

When mass immunizations were done this epidemic was stopped...there were still some who got polio but then they went to using dead cells instead and polio became history. Now in recent years it has become more widespread but do not know why - have not read up on this issue.

Someone mentioned how some illnesses are beneficial for the child.

Years ago "US News and World Report" had an article dealing with this issue, in particular to the pertussis/whooping cough vaccine. The theory was that since children no longer get it they are more susceptible to asthma. If you do a web search on THIS issue you will find people discrediting this theory. Regardless, what people say, I can tell one thing for a fact: there is a whole lot more diabetes today infecting young people then there were when I was a child in the 50s. Back then it was rare. Today it is commonplace. Why? The only vaccines we got were for small pox and, later, polio.

Anyhow...my two cents.

My opinion based on my current understanding...


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Sandra Miller

 2012/6/3 19:47Profile
ArtB
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 431
New York

 Re:

Proudpapa wrote: "Now can anyone see why I started this disscussion the way that I did?"

You have no idea what you are doing. The Horror in the 1930's and 1940's Europe of six million Jewish civilians slaughtered, from young Children to the very old, being slowly executed in a very painfull ways, children being split in half with axes for sport, the starvation, the furnaces and gas ovens, etc, etc. I am not going to go into any further examples, you would throw up. I hope you never use the Jewish holocaust for such a comparision again. The movie: 'Schindlers List' gives a small glimpse of that awful holocaust. A movie that I could only watch once.

I am aware you meant no harm, and you wanted to make a strong point and you are my fellow Christian. I love you as a my fellow brother in Jesus Christ. Your heart is in the right place. You are missing a few facts.

Here is an eye opening article fron well known Christian scientists with respect to vaccines using human fetus cells, from Dr. Jonathan Safarti on behalf of Dr. Carl Wieland. Please read.

http://creation.com/abortion-vaccines






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Arthur Biele

 2012/6/3 20:23Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
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Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hi TMK,

Quote:

I for one am pretty grateful that the infant mortality rate is a tad better than it was 75 years sgo, when my grandmother and grandfather each lost several siblings to childhood diseases.



It isn't just a "tad better." The infant mortality rate is much, much lower than it was during the first half of the 20th Century. In 1935, the infant mortality rate in the United States was at nearly 60 deaths per 1000 children. In 2007, the rate had dropped to about 1.5 deaths per 1000 children. In other words, it was 40 times higher in 1935 than in 2007. One of the major causes of death in infants was from influenza which they typically spread from adults. As adults were vaccinated, fewer infants were exposed to it.

Skeptics can visit most health science centers and literally SEE how vaccines work by peering through a microscope. There are also plenty of peer-reviewed studies that analyze and critique various vaccines via a scientific method -- and most of these studies are not a part of any government or pharmaceutical company's study.

Like sister Ginnyrose pointed out, the polio vaccine has nearly eradicated the disease from every continent where the vaccine is widely available. In fact, you will notice that many third world nations that hinder the development or importation of vaccines are often plagued with diseases that have largely disappeared in the Western world.

The lack of those diseases has little to do with diet or forcing children to "develop better immunity." This was an idea in the 18th century for fighting smallpox -- where children were injected or exposed to smallpox -- and it probably resulted in many needless deaths and infections. If you look at the specific diseases, those who took respective vaccines were at a much greater advantage of avoidance and those without such vaccines were at a heightened risk of contraction.

As for vaccines that are based upon cells taken from aborted babies: I do not support stem cell research that would be taken from aborted babies.

Here is an interesting answer to some of the issues raised in this thread:

http://www.drwalt.com/blog/?p=264


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Christopher

 2012/6/3 20:34Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 OK mabe I am just a conspiracy theorist

from the National Network for Immunization Information (NNii) which by the way is not anti vaccines.

Human Fetal Diploid Cells

Human diploid cells are batches of human cells that are grown in a laboratory. Unlike cancer cells, they have the same number of chromosomes as normal human cells.

Certain diploid cell strains are valuable in vaccine manufacture because these cells can be used for a very long period of time in the laboratory and are a reliable means by which many viruses that infect humans can be successfully and easily grown. Vaccines prepared in human diploid cells have proven to be very safe over the past several decades.

Two different strains of human diploid cell cultures made from fetuses have been used extensively for vaccine production for decades. One was developed in the United States in 1961 (called WI-38) and the other in the United Kingdom in 1966 (called MRC-5).

WI-38 came from lung cells from a female fetus of 3-months gestation and MRC-5 was developed from lung cells from a 14-week-old male fetus. Both fetuses were intentionally aborted, but neither was aborted for the purpose of obtaining diploid cells.123. The fetal tissues that eventually became WI-38 and the MRC-5 cell cultures were removed from fetuses that were dead. The cellular biologists who made the cell cultures did not induce the abortions.

These two cell strains have been growing under laboratory conditions for more than 35 years. The cells are merely the biological system in which the viruses are grown. These cell strains do not and cannot form a complete organism and do not constitute a potential human being. The cells reproduce themselves, so there is no need to abort additional fetuses to sustain the culture supply. Viruses are collected from the diploid cell cultures and then processed further to produce the vaccine itself.

The WI-38 and MRC-5 cell cultures have been used to prepare hundreds of millions of doses of vaccines, preventing millions of cases of rubella, hepatitis A, varicella and rabies. In the United States, only one of these diseases can be prevented with an FDA-licensed vaccine not grown in human diploid cells. This is the RabAvert brand of rabies vaccine manufactured by Chiron Corporation.4

Some of the vaccines that are produced in human diploid cells might now be able to be prepared in alternative types of cell cultures. Some of these cell cultures were not available or were not considered suitable for use in vaccines when the original vaccines were developed. However, there is no guarantee that vaccines grown in these alternative cell lines would be as safe and effective as currently licensed vaccines and development is likely to be extremely costly. Thus, there is little incentive for vaccine manufacturers to develop and test new vaccines when an existing licensed vaccine is known to be both safe and effective.

http://www.immunizationinfo.org/issues/vaccine-components/human-fetal-links-some-vaccines

 2012/6/3 21:13Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: ArtB

Re: ArtB I apperciate your kindness, and relization that I am not trying to offend anyone. I was not able to finish my illustration to make it work affectivly cause every one missunderstood, I do have to say that I am confused at how my analogy is worse than Raycomforts in 180 ??
I have heard no one complain about 180 other than a comment or to about leaving out a picture or to, Honestly show me how my anology is different or worse then 180??

 2012/6/3 22:11Profile





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