| Re: Anger|
I know this thread is about a conference but I believe Robert has written some words that many "John the Baptists" should earnestly consider.
His words were a mixture of truth and lies... I have been very worried that the message of repentance would attract people ...who are just angry at everyone and for every reason. Anger is not anointing.
The spirit of prophets are subject to the control of prophets...not the control of our wounds or fears.
| 2005/3/11 16:50||Profile|
When the message of repentance comes from the Holy Spirit, it's just not going to matter whether anyone thinks it's driven by anger or not. I know the heart the Lord has been giving me anyways, so I can speak only for myself. You can speak it out of the most broken and contrite heart and still the wolves will seek to tear you apart. We might as well get used to it folks, because things are not going to get any better.
I see Christians of 30+ years being made uncomfortable and embittered about the message of repentance because they themselves have NEVER done it. They just sin and sin and sin and call themselves followers of Jesus. Been there, done that, walked that lie for 10+ years.
The church is so utterly deceived at this point in time that most will never repent of anything unless it truly comes from only the Holy Spirit...And Satan has tricked even the stoutest Christians into believing that repentance preaching is driven solely by anger or angry, hurt men...and I can say it is just a plain, flat-out lie. Jesus' first word out of His mouth for His ministry was REPENT...and His last word to His churches was REPENT.
I was at the conference and didn't meet one angry person in the whole bunch. And I admit, in the back of mind, I was expecting something like a bunch of angry people getting together. That false notion was destroyed the first night. In fact, it was one of the most humble groups of people I had ever seen in one place at a time. What a change from all the anger, hatred and jealousy I received from all the so-called Christian churches after I received the Holy Spirit, was healed miraculously, truly born-again and went back to tell them all about it. Wolves in sheep's clothing in those places I went to, no doubt about it. When the Lord broke me, I had no idea the breaking would continue when I saw the spirits of my fellow friends. But I'm FINALLY getting to know the heart of my Lord now.
I have a burden now for them more than ever, however, and it's motivated out of love from my Father. An angry spirit was one of those things the Holy Spirit smashed in me, and it happened in one night. 38 years of bondage and sins of the father swept so clean, I literally don't remember my old self. As a fake, I never shed a tear for anyone. Now I weep from the Father's heart for the same people who attack me and revile me for being authentic. Repentance is such a GLORIOUS thing. The fruit it bears is truly good fruit. No wonder the sinful man rejects it so much. My prayers are with those being called out to clean up the house of the Lord and throw them out of the temple. Pray for those bringing the message of repentance to the church, for they will be fed to the most ravenous wolves on the planet.
Repentance, sweet repentance...Oh how you are the key to really knowing the depth of the forgiveness, grace, love, and mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ!
| 2005/3/11 18:05||Profile|
I hope that you are comfortable in your own holiness. If you remain, you will certainly not get in. Perhaps, YOU should repent of your dillusional belief that your own Christian practice can hold a candle to the perfection that Christ modeled. If you continue in that belief, you are most certainly deceived.
Repentance? Repent and believe the true Gospel that a child can understand. "I can NEVER be good enough!" I know, "I sin, and sin, and sin" right? Wrong, I believe in a pursuit of holiness in living but the only difference is that I do not count on it to receive ANYTHING from Him.
You must remove the rags of your own righteousness to be found "In Him" Mark (Phillipians 3). Repent and believe!!!
| 2005/3/11 23:36|
Chicago IL USA
| Re: picky400|
I believe in a pursuit of holiness in living but the only difference is that I do not count on it to receive ANYTHING from Him
Can you clarify this sentence for me please.
What is "it" that you do not count on?
Also who is "Him" that you will not receive anything from?
| 2005/3/12 2:32||Profile|
What a change from all the anger, hatred and jealousy I received from all the so-called Christian churches after I received the Holy Spirit, was healed miraculously, truly born-again and went back to tell them all about it. Wolves in sheep's clothing in those places I went to, no doubt about it.
If you were at the conference you would have seen me as I was the guy playing drums the first night. The above quote is what I am referring to when I talk about the 'spirit' or the 'anger.' When you use words like 'so-called' church or when folk preach and make condescending remarks against churches and the people laugh or amen as if that is how 'the church' is- I cannot go with that. Is that the Holy Ghost telling them to say that? I think not.
Prophets are the Oracle of God- not themselves. Prophets did not make assessments and adopt a plan. They came out of a real wilderness where that had received a Word from God to the people. What I really want to know is; what is "thus saith the Lord?" I agree and have been on the receiving end of a LOT of criticism for preaching repentance myself. It has cost me dearly. So what. It was received as anger and woundedness and even at times that I had got "mixed up with some radicals." There was every reason in the book to discount the word of repentance. This is NOT what I am referring to. I am referring to the LEAVEN in the words of many repentance messengers I hear. The word is often laced with their own grievances. Repentance preaching must be the purest word there is. There can be NO leaven in that word.
What if Jonah had given Nineveh a piece of his mind or slurred them while delivering the Word of the Lord? the slurrs have to stop or the message of repentance will fall to the ground. For example; does the church need rebuked? Does it need to be rebuked with or without wisdom? Let me tell you what the Church needs; it needs a word from God as was delivered by John to the 7 Churches of Asia. It needs the revelation of what is good and right and commended for it and then it needs to hear the "But I have somewhat against thee." And AFTER the commendation and the "somewhat against thee" is delivered- there must be Christ's instructions for CORRECTION. Not John the Revelator's word- they need the Word's of Christ. Here is how you deal with ANY church:
3) Word of instructive correction
4) Penalty for non-conformance
5) Blessing for obedience
REMEMBER there were 7 Churches and each had their own respective word. You cannot go into Philidelphia and deliver to them Laodiceas word.
These men and women I believe really love God and many are dear friends. Nothing has changed there. I have supported the message of repentance and those who preach it in EVERY way. These folks are very VOCAL people and rightly so. They are used to sharing their opinions private and public without fear. Now those who may care to have heard mine.
Robert Wurtz II
| 2005/3/12 11:01||Profile|
It is my understanding that the prophet delivers God's warning that repentance is in order, and also the warning of God's judgment if the message of repentance goes unheeded ... The prophet is not the judgment itself ... The prophet is not sent to go out of his way to persecute folk for the righteous words of God spoken thru the prophet, cutting like a double edged sword, is persecution enough ... In fact i think that it does well to note that the prophets of old didn't dish out persecution, they recieved it ... They didn't kill the people they were sent to, the people they were sent to often killed them ... Vengeance belongs to our LOrd, He shall repay! ... Perhaps it can be presented to those angry that in His parting words to Us, His Church, in Rev. chapters 2 & 3, that even tho our Bridegroom isn't pleased with every type church on the scene, we're ALL still His ... And when there comes the time for any removal of "candlesticks", or "spewing out", He's the only one according to John worthy of doing so! ... i think the entirety of the Body of Christ is in need of the reality check that we all sin (still) and fall short (still) of the glory of God ... i don't know when (tho i sense it sooner than later), and exactly how Holy Spirit is gonna bring it to pass, but before it's all over we're gonna display the love He spoke of in John 13: 34,35 ...
"A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another" ...
i'd say we've all done a poor job of showing this love sufficiently to the present world yet, but i sure do believe we're going to ... We're still ruptured, and i for one don't believe Holy Spirit will rapture a ruptured Church ... His correction of us all can't start soon enough for me ... Amen
| 2005/3/12 12:40||Profile|
In fact i think that it does well to note that the prophets of old didn't dish out persecution, they recieved it ... They didn't kill the people they were sent to, the people they were sent to often killed them ... Vengeance belongs to our LOrd, He shall repay! ... Perhaps it can be presented to those angry that in His parting words to Us, His Church, in Rev. chapters 2 & 3, that even tho our Bridegroom isn't pleased with every type church on the scene, we're ALL still His ... And when there comes the time for any removal of "candlesticks", or "spewing out", He's the only one according to John worthy of doing so!
Amen. Listen to this passage:
Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (Romans 14:4)
Much of the argument if we boil it down comes down to personal preferences in expression of faith. I have yet to hear of a church forbidding their people to go out and minister to the needy. I think a lot of the criticism is simply way too much time examining the Church and not enough time being the Church. Can a man or woman not genuinely exercise pure religion and preach repentance at the same time? Where are the cups of cold water? Where are the visitations to the fatherless and widows? I say repentance ought to begin right there.
Robert Wurtz II
| 2005/3/12 13:10||Profile|
| Re: general and anonymous/picky's comment to Mark|
First of all, I am new to this forum. So, here goes...The point of this thread was the John the Baptist Conference. The point of the conference was a call to repentence and a cry for true revival that brings transformation. Repentence is never a popular topic, especially in these days.
I prayed for this conference as it began and monitored the reports. I was too far away to come myself, but I was very encouraged by the comments of those who participated.
I would like to ask anonymous/picky what was meant by "You must remove the rags of your own righteousness"...HOW?
I believe that we are incapable of removing our own 'filthy rags' of dead works that's why Christ came to shed HIS blood for us.
Without the insight of the Holy Spirit who knows our hearts and minds and the will of God, we can't even see our 'filthy rags'. Our job is to humble ourselves continually for His inspection so we can quickly repent and receive correction and be found in Him.
We must do the works of repentence for our sins, intercessory repentence for our churches, our nation, our family. If we do not see our sin and repent, do we need a savior?
I liked the comments by RobertW on Jesus' example with the 7 churches, which is our example, we must speak the truth in love and encourage what is good and admonish what is in error with instructions on the way out, and receive the promise if we are faithful to follow instructions (This is not dead works but obedience to the lead of the Spirit).
I thank God that He sent the Holy Spirit to help us! The way I see it we have to arrive at the understanding of our fleshly nature (Romans 7) to truly embrace life in the Spirit (desparate to arrive at Romans 8).
Thanks for a place to share our thoughts!
| 2005/4/14 23:12||Profile|