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ET101
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Joined: 2010/10/26
Posts: 235


 Christs, Messaiahs, Son-gods. . .before Jesus

Does anyone have information links or other sources that can help me contend against the notion that the Christian narrative of Jesus - the Christ, God come as man, born of a virgin, died and rose again - is simply a copy of many other ancient myths of saviour-like characters? e.g. Horus etc.

I haven't studied these 'myths' but would be grateful for a quick way to get an overview and more importantly, study the Christian refutations.

Thanks.

 2012/6/1 2:00Profile
EverestoSama
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Joined: 2010/5/17
Posts: 1175


 Re: Christs, Messaiahs, Son-gods. . .before Jesus

This is a recently propagated lie. It bears no reference in historical fact. I can give you a link on YouTube to a video that blows up this entire bogus theory. Let me know and I'll try and send it to you.

 2012/6/1 6:14Profile









 Re: Christs, Messaiahs, Son-gods. . .before Jesus

Do not go to The "History" Channel for your church history. I have seen that lie promoted on numerous shows on there and other channels like it.

You'll have a hard time studying these myths... because they were more likely concocted in someone's head within the last 50 years.

Krispy

 2012/6/1 10:50









 Re:

Quote:
This is a recently propagated lie. It bears no reference in historical fact. I can give you a link on YouTube to a video that blows up this entire bogus theory. Let me know and I'll try and send it to you.

Right you are!

There are people out there that want to discredit Christ and they use the media to get that information out. You need to go beyond these mediums and dig further and not take what is being skimmed off the top and dished out to us through television and such.

 2012/6/1 11:10
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 Re:

Quote:
Does anyone have information links or other sources that can help me contend against the notion that the Christian narrative of Jesus - the Christ, God come as man, born of a virgin, died and rose again - is simply a copy of many other ancient myths of saviour-like characters? e.g. Horus etc.



Also I believe this is one of the ways since the beginning satan has decieved men. Cain was the first of the false religions in the earth. He used most of what God prescribed but then deviated from it.

The same is that all religions have their root from cain and abel and all of them have deviated further and further from the truth. That is why in some there could be something of a semblance of Christianity.

A great book also on this general subject is "Eternity in their hearts" - http://www.amazon.com/Eternity-Their-Hearts-Startling-Throughout/dp/0830709258


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 2012/6/1 13:14Profile
rbanks
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Joined: 2008/6/19
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 Re:

quote-

Also I believe this is one of the ways since the beginning satan has decieved men. Cain was the first of the false religions in the earth. He used most of what God prescribed but then deviated from it.

The same is that all religions have their root from cain and abel and all of them have deviated further and further from the truth. That is why in some there could be something of a semblance of Christianity.

-quote



Very good point Greg! we must remember that Satan always has a counterfeit or distortion of the original.

How long do you think Satan knew about some of God's plan for man?

 2012/6/1 13:39Profile
ET101
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Joined: 2010/10/26
Posts: 235


 Re:

@EverestoSama; yes, please post the link.

Thanks for the responses. It wasn't so much the history channel that I make reference to (although I think I know the type of History channel documentaries you mean). I saw an interview with Tom Harpur who once was a professor of New Testament theology. He says he came across ancient documents with pagan accounts of Jesus-like figures pre-dating Jesus.

He says the early church dismissed Pagan accusations of forgery. In fact, he says the church claimed that Satan setup early counterfeits to confuse true followers and subvert the true message before Jesus was even born.

I'm not particularly troubled by all of this. I would just love to get to the bottom of it without making too much of a detour into reading a book on it.. .or investing too much time - maybe that's just not possible.

At any rate, here are the two interviews with Tom Harpur that sparked this post for me:

Theologian Tom Harpur on escaping the grip of fundamentalism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQh1hWdf4Yo

Tom Harpur On The Pagan Roots Of Christianity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqlSuvAAjkM&feature=relmfu

 2012/6/4 1:37Profile
Blayne
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Joined: 2012/5/27
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 Re:

Hi! ET101
About your question/comments concerning so-called 'counterfeit Messiah' and Tom Harpur an' whatever:

I really don't wish to open up a can of contention, but most Christians don't have a clue about the on-going events from out of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Yet, they can eagerly tell you about how the world is becoming eviler still, assign the attributes of the Anti-Christ to any host of suspects and demonize those not sufficiently attached to their own ideology. To say the least, it's becoming a wild-eyed Christian world out there with all the mystic peddlers begging to be heeded. It's almost like standing before a multiplex theatre to choose your Sunday movie; the "Gospel of World Events", the "Gospel of Entertainment", the Gospel of Politics" ... even the "Gospel of the Tomb-Slayers" where sinners are merely exhumed and not "resurrected to newness of life".

This, in spite of the fact that the very definition of faith plainly states it as "the evidence of things unseen". They only know the gospel ABOUT Jesus and very little about the gospel OF Jesus; which is known as the "Gospel of the Kingdom" which is a gospel concerning "things unseen".
Neither do they have much of a clue about their dwelling "in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" or of their having been transferred to the Kingdom of God.

Everything seems to have been reduced to something akin to a childish blackboard containing the residue of erased sins and the dubious ability to tread water until Jesus comes.

You wrote: "In fact, he says the church claimed that Satan setup early counterfeits to confuse true followers and subvert the true message before Jesus was even born".

There has always been a conflict between truth and falsehood; between genuine and counterfeit, between the faithful and the unfaithful since the Garden of Eden. This is why it becomes exceedingly urgent for every Christian to be able to answer these two questions for themselves: Who is Jesus? and, Who is God and what is He like?
Otherwise, the very foundation of their Christian faith is at risk.

We have genuine earnest Christians today who consistently fail to comprehend the exalted position of Jesus in the eternal counsel of God; including the former 'Toronto Star' Religious Editor, Tom Harpur.

Not only do they own a blurred image of Jesus presently, they remain ill-equipped to discern a counterfeit.

In addition, we have sincere Christians falsely claiming that it is God who pays the wages of sin. This idea is near to blasphemy and clearly shows that they hold mistaken notions about God and who He is.

In Revelation 20:12, the plural – books – is used. We read that books will be opened at the last judgment. God only possesses the Book of Life. God rewards those who diligently seek after Him.

It is the evil one who possesses the Book of Death. As such, the wages of sin are paid by the evil one.

We know that he who commits sin finds himself alienated from the Living God and places himself, whether knowingly or unknowingly, in the service of the Evil One. The words of the Apostle Paul confirm this fact: "Do you not know that if you continually surrender yourselves to anyone to do his will, you are the slaves of him whom you obey, whether that leads to sin that leads to death or to obedience which leads to righteousness?”

Again, we read: "Now to a laborer, his wages are not counted as a favor or a gift, but an obligation --- something owed to him"; "Every sin receives retribution; a reward or wage will be duly paid for every disobedience", (Rom 6:16; 4:4; Heb 2:2).

Our heavenly Father does not keep these records of sin, for there is not a single reason for Him to do so. Why would He keep the wage list of those people who did evil and therefore worked for His enemy?

When at the end of the Millennium the devil is thrown into the Second Death, he leaves behind a legacy, namely his bookkeeping. Until his very end he kept a record of all who had worked for him during their life on earth. The devil is entitled to pay the wages for every lawless act done for him on earth.

The ‘wages’ paid by the devil will bring man into death. It says: “The wages of sin is death”, and “Sin when it is full grown brings forth death”. Outside of God there is no life, so the wages of sin --- of turning away from God --- has to be death. Therefore, when we fell prey to the powers of sin and death and thus ended up in the clutches of the Evil One, God's justice compelled Him to recognize the Devil's right and lawful entitlement to pay us the wages of death.

The book of life contains only the names of those who have done deeds of righteousness. It should of course be clear that this is not the perfect righteousness as it is given by Jesus. The dead will be judged ‘according to what they have done’. As for the perfectly righteous, they are in the new Jerusalem which is not in the vicinity of Hades or in the realm of Death. About them the bible says , that their names are written in the book of life of the Lamb that was slain, (Rev 13:8 and 21:27).

It’s God earnest desire that no one should perish. This is what the Parable of the Peal speaks about. God, in effect, said to the Evil One: 'Give me all the pearls you have and I will surrender to you the Son of My Love, a pearl of exceeding beauty". The transaction was something to the image of exchanging a thousand tarnished copper pennies for the flawless ten-dollar gold piece.

Jesus, the 'Pearl of Great Price' was exchanged for all the guilt-ridden damaged and injured human beings of all times and of all places. He was "betrayed and put to death because of our misdeeds and was raised to secure our justification --- our acquittal, and to make our account balance, absolving us from all guilt before God", (Rom 4:25). The blood of Jesus, --- His life --- was the price that was demanded by the Evil One (not God) as lawful ransom to effect the repossession of the entire human race.


======================
by ET101 on 2012/6/3 22:37:59

@EverestoSama; yes, please post the link.

Thanks for the responses. It wasn't so much the history channel that I make reference to (although I think I know the type of History channel documentaries you mean). I saw an interview with Tom Harpur who once was a professor of New Testament theology. He says he came across ancient documents with pagan accounts of Jesus-like figures pre-dating Jesus.

He says the early church dismissed Pagan accusations of forgery. In fact, he says the church claimed that Satan setup early counterfeits to confuse true followers and subvert the true message before Jesus was even born.
======================

 2012/6/4 3:50Profile
ET101
Member



Joined: 2010/10/26
Posts: 235


 Re:

Thank you for responses.

I just read the review of 'Eternity in their hears' - thanks Greg. Yes, that theory places some sort of floor under my curiosity about from where these imitations originate: ie. possibly tangential extensions from cultural analogies God has permitted (placed?) in Greco-Roman, Chinese and other cultures.

It's evident to me that the quick answer I was fishing for is probably not out there. I believe I'll research it at a seminary library soon.

Blayne: I agree entirely with the dangerous you raise about wide eyed peddlers of other gospels and about answering for one's self 'who is Jesus Christ?' I'm focused on that but just curious about these other imitations too - if anything, so I can give a holistic answer to 'who is Jesus Christ' and one that is distinctly separated from all of these other 'gospels.'

Thanks.

 2012/6/6 4:31Profile





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