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DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1357
Lakeland FL

 The reality of death

I don't know if this is a question or not but it is something that has been haunting me for a great while and was recently amplified. It is death. There are a number of books about death and people going to heaven and hell and so forth. My thoughts aren't on that experience but more on the experience of act of death. Meaning, some people have said certain others died and looked like they were in peace while others seemed to be horrified as they died. Others just simply passed on with no overt emotion indicating the afterlife.

On Good Friday a past supervisor got in a motorcyle accident. He basically lost control on an overpass and lacerated his leg and fell down on the highway below on the side. From one of the stories I heard he had bleed to death and a nurse had stopped to help me and he was scared about dying because he has and tween kids. Yet, what bothered me about it all is about real death is and how real is the afterlife and why is it that some are expressionless while others seem to show expression as they pass on.

For some reason this supervisors death and everything around me just nags and haunts at me.


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John

 2012/5/31 18:17Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5355
NC, USA

 Re: The reality of death

Hi Deadn--

Can you explain in more detail what bothers you about dying? Do you have a fear of the process, or what lies thereafter?

Some people die peaceably (like my mother in law) because she was in a slow process of dying for several days; her family was with her and she was right with her Maker.

Some people die in a lot of pain-- therefore it might not be surprising that they might die with a grimace on their face.

Whether people are actually glimpsing the afterlife at the moment of death is debatable. We have all heard anectdotal stories. Stephen had a vision, or actually saw, Jesus standing to welcome him.

Perhaps the "veil" does become very thin at the point of death. Who knows?


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Todd

 2012/5/31 18:26Profile
Trekker
Member



Joined: 2011/7/29
Posts: 683
northern USA

 Re: The reality of death

It is interesting that you have posted this and your very username is all about death (DEADn). What does your username mean;what do you mean by it? Have you perhaps been haunted by death long before this incident involving your former supervisor?

Anyone who is NOT haunted by death is NOT normal, or is living in their own little Disneyland. Cuz eternity IS a very serious deal and every one SHOULD be haunted by it.

 2012/5/31 18:32Profile
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1357
Lakeland FL

 Re:

Trekker

My user name - DEADn- (deaden) is a reflection of an ocassion that happened to me back in 1999 when I died inside. It reminds the inner pain I went through when I led my life as a passionate Christian and then I killed myself inside because of severe disillusionment within the church. From people making excuses for their sins over and over again to people who would tell me there were passionate about God but there were no power, only either fundamentalist laws or pentecostal nonsense that sounded like God but there was no power there. Over the course of that year it wore in my soul to the point that I just decided to die inside.

Have I been haunted by death even long before this supervisor? I suppose so like everyone else. 'Haunted' may not be the right word for it. Wondering may be a proper word.

Something that bothers me and I only hear the extremes talked about. People have told stories so certain people would cry out in horror because it seems demons were coming to get them as they died. Flip it around and the same is said of some who say they see angels or even Jesus coming to get them. The vast majority, it seems, doesn't have these things. Sometimes I have wondered if many people who die without any emotion, if that emotion is a mask to keep us in the physical world veiled from the spiritual world? I have often thought that a person dying would open up a portal to the spirit world by seeing the reaction of those who pass on but so many people seem to do it without horror but just peacefully they go on.

Sometimes I wonder if it is the mystery of death.


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John

 2012/6/1 16:10Profile
Blayne
Member



Joined: 2012/5/27
Posts: 274


 Re:

Hi! DEADn

I found that your reason for your asking question far more dramatic than the question itself.
You wrote: "I killed myself inside because of severe disillusionment within the church."

Unfortunately, you have a valid point about some Christian churches which are achieving prominence in these days.
My immediate thought is akin to saying: "been there ---- done that!".

It took me years to find both Bible teachings and genuine Believers who had discarded the masks of pretentious piety and who had removed the cloaks which were knitted by the zealots of religious puppetry.
But even though I was profoundly disappointed with the cultural church and their excesses and abuse, I never once was tempted to give up finding that which was genuine and real.

Although I was attending a supposed spirit-filled Bible-believing church, there were times when I would walk through its doors and cringe under the hugs waiting to greet me; their hugs felt like an embalmer's embrace.

My own personal search for the real and genuine began with this: If I believed that Jesus loved me enough to die for me, then I must also believe that Jesus also loved me enough to lead me to His truths and to His people.

I refused to follow after the 'Gospel of Anesthesia' where the spiritually dead are merely exhumed and not resurrected. I became purposely deaf to the 'Gospel of Health and Wealth' which functions with the pernicious skill of ambulance chasers. I wanted nothing to do with the 'Gospel of Autopsy' which eagerly rips open festering wounds and teases the most secret scars but fails to provide the ointments of restoration and healing. I also refused to pay heed to the 'Gospel of the Parrots' which denied that our Jesus speaks to His church in this very day and hour.

The Gospel of Jesus offers elevation, not levitation; life assurance, not a fire insurance; genuine freedom, and not merely a tentative truce. Its preoccupation is mercy, not money; triumph, not success; inheritance, not reward.

So, it was that I began the journey to find a church and people where the transparency of the Word of God was evident. A church where there was spiritual freedom and where I could learn to leave the warmth of the womb and truly partake of the New Birth.

Concerning the matter of physical death:
To put it mildly, witnessing a death can be a most excruciating emotional and gruesome event. Unfortunately, I've had this experience more than a few occasions; with both family members and friends.

Our attitude and reaction concerning death mostly revolves around how we perceive the event of death and the so-called here-after.

The first thing that must be reckoned with is that the human body can be compared to a flower pot which holds a planting created by God. Throughout our lives we are preoccupied with attending both the maintenance of the flower pot and the nourishment of the plant contained in it.

There comes the day when the 'mortal' flower pot might suddenly be struck down or simply deteriorate from age.
What must concern us is not the flower pot; after all, we have been aware for so long a time that it was subject to accidental breaking and/or decay. Instead, our thoughts are on the 'immortal' planting.

What happens to the 'life' which was once so gloriously present in the flower pot?

We have the absolute certainty that the flower itself is not extinguished. It contains invisible substance and therefore belongs to the invisible world. As such, it returns to that dimension when having departed the flower pot.

We also find ourselves begging to somehow have the confidence of whether the composite of the invisible person - "treasure in an earthen vessel" - enters heaven. This of course is where certain ideas can become more than a little confusing for those who are not learned in the Scriptures.
There is so much anxious talk and wild-eyed theories about heaven and hell these days. It can be very difficult to negotiate through some of the especially abusive mess of it all.

So, let me try and explain it this way:
The Bible calls the initial creation of the planting a “worm” condition. The worm does not die because it belongs to the invisible world “where their worm does not die”, (Mark 9:48). The plant does not stop existing. When the visible flower pot dissolves, it continues to live; but only in the invisible world.

But we also gladly testify that there is the possibility for the plant to have undergone a metamorphosis while seated in the flower pot. The Bible invites every man to put off the old nature and put on the new. The word 'metamorphosis' is concerned with being re-born and becoming a "new creature" (a new species of plant) through the power of our sovereign God.

But herein is the difference between the two plants:
The plant which has experienced a metamorphosis has already been "resurrected to newness of life" and is therefore already having a citizenship and position in the "heavenly places in Christ Jesus". This is meaning to say that the plant has become a new "species" ... similar to the event of the metamorphosis of the caterpillar to the butterfly. Even though it remains detectable in a flower pot, it also lives and moves in the 'air', (the invisible world).

So, now we need to discuss the situation of those plants which neglected to experience a metamorphosis and are not already personally acquainted with the first resurrection and "newness of life".

The Book of Life contains the names of those who have done deeds of righteousness. It should of course be clear that this is not the perfect righteousness as it is given by Jesus. Nevertheless, those who have not been acquainted with a "metamorphosis' will be judged "according to what they have done". If in their lives these people strived to show divine qualities, namely compassion and loving kindness. When the Book of Life is opened, judgment is passed upon those in whom the image of God has not completely vanished.

The Book of Life is especially concerned as to whether their mind had functioned correctly and their conscience had not been seared. Whether their hearts were seeking to love their fellow men and if they had sought for the things God seeks for: salvation and restoration. James the apostle said about them: "Mercy triumphs over judgment", or as the Amplified Bible puts it: "Mercy full of glad confidence exults victoriously over judgment", (James 2:13). Mercy shown to the least of men is regarded by the Lord as having been shown to Himself. Our gospel is founded on the love and mercy of God, and Paul said that God will judge the secrets of men according to His gospel, (Rom 2:16).

An example of this type of person is Ebed Melech the Ethiopian who showed mercy to Jeremiah by carefully lifting him out of the pit he had been thrown in. Another is the Samaritan who showed mercy to his "fellow man", "one of the least of these", and helped him on his way. His compassion was not an outward compulsion but an inner need which was part of his inner make-up.

So, DEADn, I hope this all helps to put things in proper perspective for you.

Best of blessings in your search for the truth about God!

 2012/6/1 18:33Profile









 Re: Your name Deadn

Quote:
My user name - DEADn- (deaden) is a reflection of an ocassion that happened to me back in 1999 when I died inside. It reminds the inner pain I went through when I led my life as a passionate Christian and then I killed myself inside because of severe disillusionment within the church.



You account of how you came by your name is heart rending. When I have seen your name in the past I just thought that it meant "I am dead in Christ". I haven't heard of such a response to seeing the problems which many churches experience. Can it really be true that what you witnessed in 1999 in a church had such a profound effect on you? I can believe all to easily that believers are often made to suffer by what other believers do and say to one another. The most common example of this has been an abuse of authority which has caused a sincere young believer to feel crushed and made them weep with real grief at the way they have been treated. This crushing experience is sometimes compounded by a lovely attitude on the part of the young believer humbling themselves in the hope that they will be forgiven or else delivered back to the company of the saints. If this "humbling attitude" gives rise to abuse then it becomes humiliation. The effect is even more terrible.

Your experience is different by what you have shared and should have led to a deeper relationship and love of Christ. If you were young in the Lord and full of faithfulness and a desire to serve God then such as you have described could have a damaging effect.

There are always brethren who's sins are visible and unconfessed and there are always brethren who lack real power to serve God, or else who resist God's power in their lives to serve Him. The root is the same root. It is self giving rise to sin or else sin giving rise to a lack of true power of God. This should not cause you to lay waste to your self in a spirit of hopelessness. Sadness and sorrow can be a deep well which leads you to Christ and intercession for those who you know in Christ. Revive your soul and seek God for comfort. He is faithful and will lift you again to a new and fresh understanding. Perhaps this death of someone you have known will prove to be a turning point for you. I pray that is is so. In Christ name.

Andrew

 2012/6/1 19:13
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7464
Mississippi

 Re:

QUOTE:
The vast majority, it seems, doesn't have these things.

True.

I have seen three people die and none spoke anything as they were crossing the line from time to eternity. Rather, I do find their testimony when they were alert revealing and enough.

What I do find disturbing are those who see something that appears wonderful but you know they are not living for the LORD.

We had a customer at our business who shared how the saw something wonderful and he anticipates this place upon death. BUT he expects to go there on the power of his good deeds! So, you see, I highly suspect the devil is literally appearing as an angel of light to some in order to deceive the weak.

Anyhow...why some are verbal and others not I do not know but I do chalk it up to one of the mysteries God has chosen to not reveal to us.

My opinion...

ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2012/6/1 20:10Profile
Trekker
Member



Joined: 2011/7/29
Posts: 683
northern USA

 Re:

QUOTE: "Trekker
My user name - DEADn- (deaden) is a reflection of an ocassion that happened to me back in 1999 when I died inside. It reminds the inner pain I went through when I led my life as a passionate Christian and then I killed myself inside because of severe disillusionment within the church. From people making excuses for their sins over and over again to people who would tell me there were passionate about God but there were no power, only either fundamentalist laws or pentecostal nonsense that sounded like God but there was no power there. Over the course of that year it wore in my soul to the point that I just decided to die inside."==DEANn






Thanks for sharing. I can sure relate to the things you are talking about, all across the board. Yes, it is very sad. But have you recovered?

The day i stopped attending organized religious institutions was one of the happiest and most freeing days of my life. From then on i began to feel closer to the Lord and far less depressed. I have met atheists who are kinder and more Christlike than churchpeople.

As for being haunted by death and the dying, i think that is the way it is meant to be. It is judgement upon sin ("For the wages of sin is death") and we are ALL sinners. I can't speak to why some people have neardeath or deathbed experiences and others do not, just as i can't explain why some people die in childhood and yet the wicked live out their entire lives making others miserable.


QUOTE: "It took me years to find both Bible teachings and genuine Believers who had discarded the masks of pretentious piety and who had removed the cloaks which were knitted by the zealots of religious puppetry."==BLAYNE


WOW, that's a mouthful!! LOL! I have to keep repeating that sentence over and over in my head just to wrap my brains around it and process it.

 2012/6/1 20:32Profile
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1357
Lakeland FL

 Re:

amrkelly and trekker

My own experience was not just the church I went to. It was also other Christians I encountered along the way in various dimensions. One thing just built upon another. My own fault was taking my eyes off of God yet I was looking for God as well through other Christians and this is at least part of the very reason I fell into disillusionment. I have heard of some atheists and agnostics giving the same experience. There have been times I have asked myself do I truly beleive in God? Am I only fooling myself and I really don't believe in God? If you look at some of my past postings they reflect some of these things within me that I may be wondering about and am seeking some genuine answers. I.E. once I asked about God working in people's lives vs. simply things that were expected to happen anyway, when you truly knew it was God vs. trying to make it fit.

Trekker- you asked if I have recovered? Not 100% if I go back to what I was before this ocasion. I am about halfway there maybe? I use opportunities like this forum plus the podcasts to learn and do something in my soul. I still struggle within alot as anyone else does but I am constantly searching for truth in the context of who God is in Jesus. I often ask myself if I am trying to hard to see God or looking in the wrong place.



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John

 2012/6/1 21:18Profile
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1357
Lakeland FL

 Re:

Now, in regards to my original post about death. It is more along the lines of the act of dying and not necessarily the afterlife because it is truly a mystery.

I often wonder when a person passes away and they are in a a state where it happens in a few seconds as opposed to an instant why many seem to go 'peacefully'? Do think it is because maybe most people don't see the 'door' until the body has given up the Spirit and only certain people, for whatever reason, will have those horror experiences of a devil or an angelic experience of God or an angel coming to meet them as they might say?

This supervisor, who was a supervisor of mine at one time, was a very smart guy yet I don't know his spiritual state. I could surmise what it was based on his character and I really don't think it involved God at all. He was just into motorcycles, ocassional drinking and his kids which he talked about in the negative but for him he didn't mean it to be negative. His true form was the total opposite. It is ironic because althought he put up such a front to many people yet so many people from the company came to his funeral and wake. Matter o fact our plant, except for 2 departments shut down operations in order to attend the funeral because of the impact he made in the plant.

When I heard several stories about how he died I really focused on what that must have been like for him. Was he exposed to anything spiritual in that moment beyond thinking of his kids and his fears? I wonder this more and more about those who pass away.


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John

 2012/6/1 21:28Profile





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