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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Fantasy and fiction, is that wrong.

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Philip
Member



Joined: 2003/10/23
Posts: 26
Kansas, USA

 Re:

Quote:
Who would you say is the "father" of the cross?



The father of the cross is God. It was his plan, he authored it.

Quote:
"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. "
Rev 13:8







Quote:
How about parables (which was explained as a type of fantasy or use of the imagination earlier)?




I believe that every word that Jesus said is true. If he says, " A certain man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about it, and digged a place for the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country." (Mk 12:1) then I believe that he is speaking of a certain time and place and action, not just making it up off the top of his head. Perhaps I am wrong, I stand to be corrected.

Quote:
"Things have one of two fathers."



This is in references to things of men, for example entertainment. Take 2 Cor 11:15 for example:
Quote:
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.


The devil will always try to take good things to seduce us with, and we need to be discerning. If there are occultic overtones in that which we take for entertainment, then should we doubt who the father of it is? I have heard people try to get a gospel to witness with, using the Matrix as their them... tell me, who is the father of the movie the matrix? Is it neutral? I agree there are good movies and bad movies, we don't throw out movies all together, just because they are bad. However, if they have worldly themes, who is the father of them? If they cause you to desire more of the world, what is thier origin? We swallow a lot of deceit to get truth from obscure places when not consuming the pure truth ourselves. What is the reason for that? Is it because our hearts are in love with the world? May we search our hearts. I stand open for correction on any point...


Philip

Quote:
Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. Col 3:2-3




-"Is the life you are living worth Christ dying for?" -Ravenhill

 2003/11/7 14:33Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
I believe that every word that Jesus said is true. If he says, " A certain man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about it, and digged a place for the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country." (Mk 12:1) then I believe that he is speaking of a certain time and place and action, not just making it up off the top of his head. Perhaps I am wrong, I stand to be corrected.



I can understand why you would want to think this but at least a couple of examples come to mind which would be difficult to fit it.

e.g.
Matthew 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

and the amazing story of forgiveness in Matt 18:21-19:30

The two servants each have a debt. One hundred pence is equivalent to 100 days labour in the grape harvest. If we estimate £30 per day, approx £3,000. It might have take three of four months to clear such a debt. 10,000 Attic talents is equivalent to £1.8bn. It would have taken 191693 years work in the grape harvest to have cleared that debt! (sorry about the GBPs but the 'standard day's wages for a labourer is a very useful measure.)

I think this astronomical figure was almost certainly to make a point rather than to indicate the exact measure of his indebtedness. The man's request for time to pay is ludicrous with this kind of debt. As any offer of ours would be to repay our debt.

That man's master released him and forgave the debt. Imagine; one moment he carried the weight of an almost unbelievable debt, the next moment it was gone! So has mine! Hallelujah.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2003/11/7 17:10Profile
todd
Member



Joined: 2003/5/12
Posts: 573
California

 Re:

Philip,

You wrote:
"The father of the cross is God. It was his plan, he authored it."

So is "author" the same thing as "father?" Can you expand on that thought?

If God is the father of the cross (and I am speaking of the cross in general as a means of torturous punishment), then doesn't this show that even things that God is the father of can be manipulated for evil purposes, and/or that GOd can use seemingly evil things for great good? Though this is [i]very[/i] unclear to me.

Quote:
"This is in references to things of men, for example entertainment. Take 2 Cor 11:15 for example: Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."

So are you saying that the devil is the father of entertainment? How does 2 Cor. 11:15 apply or show that (if that is what you are arguing, if not, what was your reason for including that Scripture)?

QUote:
"If they cause you to desire more of the world, what is thier origin?"

It seems to me that if this happens it could be personal weakness that is the real problem, not necessarily the thing itself that is "causing" the problem. Sure, on the whole the world might have been better off without this "thing"; The Matrix for example. But since it's here, God can use it for good and good can come out of it.

Where do you find the notion that everything ("of men" as you say) has one of 2 fathers? Do you feel that God has revealed that to you or is it from another source? Do you have any Biblical support for this (at least that you know of)?

Quote:
"However, if they have worldly themes, who is the father of them?"

Doesn't the Bible have worldly themes?

Quote:
"We swallow a lot of deceit to get truth from obscure places when not consuming the pure truth ourselves. What is the reason for that? Is it because our hearts are in love with the world? May we search our hearts."

Amen brother. This could be. I stand in agreement with you on this point. Let's be diligent to search our own hearts on this issue. I think that's where it should be left.

Why not let God deal personally with each individual on this issue if instruction about it is not clearly shown in Scripture?




 2003/11/7 20:47Profile
VampireBite
Member



Joined: 2003/8/21
Posts: 17


 Re:

To those who have written and those who merely read.

I have glanced through here after a rather extinsive leave of absense, and I am really tired, so I did not absorb most of the info, but the way i see this is:

Some one said "Everything has one of 2 fathers" and basically summed up the whole good and vil, black and white type thing in that phrase, (again forgive me if I misssed some really importan thing you said, just PM me and I will address it.) any way... what they mean may have one of 2 fathers, but if a story can be used for Church edification or for ministries of some kind, Isn't it our Biblical duty to work in everyway for God. I have lead people to Christ by talking about Vampires. Hence one of the reasons for my name. Basically what I am saying is if it can be used of Christ, even if it wasn't made for Him, why shouldn't we use it?

 2003/11/19 22:55Profile
VampireBite
Member



Joined: 2003/8/21
Posts: 17


 Re: My Name

Recently someone to a cheap shot at my name here on the site, I am now going to explain for your benefit why I chose this name.

The world veiws Vampires as a sort of lower being, an evil that spreads from one body to the next, dragging it down into the depths of undead. Unfortunately they also often see Christians that way, look at the press, we are getting smeared left and right. Christianity was once a poin of pride, now we aren't even allowed to display the Ten Commandments in public. The world sees christians as lowly, boring, do this do that people, and we share our christian heritage and though it takes a while for new christians to calm down, we all eventually become complacent, happy to live our lives sitting in church wondering who will win the big game.

Well, I say no more, I may be seen as a Bite, Infecting others with the boringness of Christ, but I am proud to tell others of my beleifs, and I refuse to simply carry my bible to the mall and say to Joe Goth, 'Hi I love Jesus, and He loves you.' cause that won't get you anywhere, I go stealth, I dress Goth, look Goth, and to an extint act Goth, and they accept me and it opens me up to hit them with Christ from a direction they aren't used to defending from, the inside.

VampireBite is my name, but it is also my commitment to God and to the Church to never give up on the Goth's in the world, and to continue to 'infect' them with Christ.

Thank You.

 2003/11/19 23:04Profile





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