The logic would be that God is going to hold us accountable for Adam's sin in the garden but not hold us accountable to our fathers sin as we read in verse 20?
I am thru argueing nothing Has came from this thread but argument. Old Joe you mocked at my testomoney what small portion I gave, Thus discreaditing any attempt to be benifical to some one intrapped in sin, holding on to dual nature theolgy, That in its self reveals alot.If You want your Catholic Doctrines your Traditions of men so have them. You have all of the Theolgy Books most of the Commentaries on your side, You have a dying sinning Church that stands right behind you.I Shake the Dust from my feet
Hi Old Joe,How are you getting the Ezekiel and Deuteronomy passages to harmonize with the Romans 5?I believe that just as it says in Romans 5 death entered in through sin. I also believe all will sin, but the question is, how do get get Romans 5 to harmonize with scriptures like Ezekiel 18 and Deuteronomy 24?God Bless,Russ
ginnyroseYou are talking about meaness and where did that come from? The example of its parent. All young children are selfish, they have to consider their needs first or they die. If they have the example of a selfless parent they learn it. You dont beat thngs like that in. They willingly learn obedience if the relationship with the parent is notdisfunctional. We are talking about young children here. Later, things get more complicated but all sin comes from man wanting to do things his way which may not be bad, its in the intention.
"Why was it necessary for Jesus to be born of a virgin? Or do you even think it was necessary?"It was necessary for His parents to know that the conception was a divine intervention. He would have needed more protection than a normal child due to Satan.
Exactly, Krautfrau! Christianity has all but ignored that the spiritual source of sin is Satan, just as the spiritual source of life is Jesus Christ. It all comes down to WHO we are choosing to RECEIVE FROM and ABIDE IN. This is where sin or righteousness takes place. In our CHOICE to either abide in Christ or Satan. This is a difficult concept for Christianity since they have bought Augustine's duality of nature since the 4th century. God is the only Independent Self or Being – exercising the Freewill to Self‐determine His course in accord with His own character, and Self‐implement the expression of that character in divine action. He does what He does, because He IS who He IS. Human beings have freedom of choice (not Free‐will), and the choice is primarily (at the deepest level) a choice from which spiritual source (God or Satan) we are going to derive character in the midst of our behavioral actions. We do not have the choice to act “out of ourselves” (ek autos), as only God can do. We only have the choice to derive and receive from a spiritual source – either ek Theos (out of God), or ek diabolos (out of the devil). There is no third alternative. There is only the either/or of God or Satan. Yet, the prevailing philosophy of fallen man is humanism, which advocates that human beings can self‐generate, self‐actuate, and self‐actualize. The reason why this premise of “derivative man” is so central to my understanding of man’s relationship with God is because any alternative other than “derivative man” is to accept the lie of Satan, “you can be like God.” That has been the humanistic lie from the beginning. The thesis of “derivative man” is the only explanation that rejects the humanistic thesis en toto. What happens in evangelical Christian religion is a modification of humanistic thought – Evangelical Humanism! They reject the devil’s lie that they can “be like God” in self‐generating goodness and righteousness. They agree with Gal. 2:21 that if man could generate his own righteousness, then Christ died needlessly. But, apart from Jesus, they allege that man generates his own evil, his own sinfulness, his own unrighteousness. In so doing, they reject the foundational premise of “derivative man” for all character function. They fall back on a premise of ek autos – that sin is “out of oneself,” blaming such on a straw‐man called “self” – an alleged “independent self.” And then they attempt to “beat up on this self” in masochistic performance efforts to “die to self” and suppress their alleged intrinsic sinfulness – trying thereby to be their own savior! Everything about man’s being and function is derivative: We have a derived spiritual nature (either Satan’s wrath‐nature or Christ’s divine nature). We have a derived spiritual identity (either sinners or saints). We have a derived spiritual character (either righteousness or sinfulness). We have a derived spiritual life or death. We have a derived spiritual image (visibly expressing 20the nature and character of the spirit within us). We have a derived spiritual immortality, when we are deriving from the Immortal God who brought immortality to mankind through His Son (cf. I Timothy 6:16; II Timothy 1:19). GOD acts ek autos“out of Himself”to express His characterMAN receives byderiving from spiritual source– ek Theos (out of God)– ek diabolos (out of the devil)DERIVATIVE MANEVERYTHING about man’s being and function is derived.Derived nature “nature of wrath” -or- “divine nature”Derived identity “sinners” -or- “saints”Derived character “sinfulness” -or- “righteousness”Derived image visible expression of God or SatanDerived ... “life” -or- “death”Derived immortality “Immortal God” brought “life and immortality to light through the gospel”(Some selections taken from Jim Fowler, http://www.christinyou.net/pdfs/FAQS.pdf, question #4).This understanding has helped me tremendously to understand sin, the source of sin, the battle with sin and how to overcome. To me it is so simple, yet I understand that because of centuries of the prevailing teaching this is difficult to grasp. Not that it is difficult to understand but that it is difficult to get rid of old mindsets.Satan is a master of disguise!!Pilgrim
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Brenda,The child inherits its tendency to sin from their bio-father.Jesus' was conceived of the Holy Ghost, hence he did not have the nature to sin as your children did and mine.Brenda, are you saying that the reason your children have turned out the way they did is because you taught them to do so? I hate to bring this point into this discussion, but your point does not make sense in light of what you have written earlier in another thread about your family. As I recall there was spousal abuse, alcoholism, homosexuality...Am I right? or wrong - if wrong, please correct me.ginnyrose
_________________“If you wish to know God, you must know His Word. If you wish to perceive His power, you must see how He works by His Word. If you wish to know His purpose before it comes to pass, you can only discover it by His Word.” (Charles Spurgeon)
"Why was it necessary for Jesus to be born of a virgin? Or do you even think it was necessary?"Krautfrau answered:It was necessary for His parents to know that the conception was a divine intervention. He would have needed more protection than a normal child due to Satan.My reply:So you are saying that the protection of Jesus growing up as a child was dependent upon His parents and they really would not have protected Him all that well unless they knew He was Divine? So you think God is not capable of protecting His own Son and needs help from earthly parents and they wouldn't protect their son very well unless they knew He was Divine? Mary was visited by an angel and expressed faith in what was told her. She did not need a sign. Likewise Joseph was visited in a dream and did not doubt. He also needed no sign.
pilgrim"We have a derived spiritual nature (either Satan’s wrath‐nature or Christ’s divine nature). We have a derived spiritual identity (either sinners or saints). We have a derived spiritual character (either righteousness or sinfulness). We have a derived spiritual life or death. We have a derived spiritual image (visibly expressing 20the nature and character of the spirit within us). We have a derived spiritual immortality, when we are deriving from the Immortal God who brought immortality to mankind through His Son (cf. I Timothy 6:16; II Timothy 1:19)."Very good - amen
"Brenda, are you saying that the reason your children have turned out the way they did is because you taught them to do so? I hate to bring this point into this discussion, but your point does not make sense in light of what you have written earlier in another thread about your family. As I recall there was spousal abuse, alcoholism, homosexuality...Am I right? or wrong - if wrong, please correct me."They were corrupted and deceived and I was too sick to do anything (undiagnosed Lyme Disease) and bedbound for some time.
