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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Are we on the brink of Apostacy?

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 Re:

Jim Rutz and Jerry Trousdale have written about the marvelous move of God taking place in the 10/40 window. What Wilkerson and others are saying is now taking place in other parts of the world. God grant that it will come to America.

Bearmaster.

 2012/5/23 12:09
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re: Are we on the brink of Apostacy?

Christianity is in decline in most of the West, without a doubt. There are undoubtedly pockets of apostasy. But, outside of the West, and across the globe, Christianity has been experiencing an amazing expansion since the missionary movement that began in the 1800's, and then became a blaze with the rise of the Pentecostal movement in the early 1900's. The church in South America and Asia are stronger and larger than ever. They aren't without their problems of course. But in many of the places across this world that were previously devoid of anybody who even knew the name of Christ, many men and women have laid down their lives, establishing Christ where He has yet to be established. When I hear of a small but growing church in places like Afghanistan, I have a hard time believing we are seeing the apostasy the Scriptures speak of.


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Jimmy H

 2012/5/23 17:38Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Bear master I read a little of what Jim Rutz has to say and I am afraid he seems to have been sucked into the manifest sons of God theory

"We are in the early stages of total transformation of our planet" quote by Jim Rutz

That Bearmaster is just another form of Apostacy that is preparing a false church to welcome the Antichrist...

When I first came across the manifest sons of god theroy it threw me for a while as it's very similar to what God will do the difference with manifest sons of God theory is that "the church" takes over the world as the manifest sons of God...

What I am saying is and I beleive others here are saying God will raise up a people who will confront the antichrist and they will not love there life unto death and they will come off victorious from his name, his number and his image....

That what God plans to do has not yet started yet be careful....


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Colin Murray

 2012/5/23 18:11Profile









 Re:

Bro Colin says...........

"When I first came across the manifest sons of god theroy it threw me for a while as it's very similar to what God will do the difference with manifest sons of God theory is that "the church" takes over the world as the manifest sons of God...

What I am saying is and I beleive others here are saying God will raise up a people who will confront the antichrist and they will not love there life unto death and they will come off victorious from his name, his number and his image...."

Amen brother, we are not being raised up to take over the world, we are being raised up like lambs to the slaughter. God will pour out His Spirit on His people and the world and everything that loves the world, will come against them with a fury never seen. And they will love not their lives unto death as the civil and religious forces hunt them down in such a time as has never been seen. Praise God, that the same Spirit that burned in Stephen will burn in the saints.

The prophets of old, and newer prophets are given eyes by God to see the whole sweep of history, not pockets, not moments of success, but the whole sweep and the destination. They speak to the state of the Christendom..........bro Frank

 2012/5/23 23:58
fromtheold
Member



Joined: 2006/10/25
Posts: 161
South Africa

 Re: Are we on the brink of Apostacy?

The apostacy started in 1881 already with Wescott and Hort.


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esvl

 2012/5/24 4:01Profile









 Re: Murrcolr

Brother I confess ignorance of what the manifest sons of God theory is. I think what you are describing is what we call Dominionism over here. You know where we are going to take it all over for Jesus. Personally I think such a view is unscriptural.

I cannot say where Jim Fits is on this. Perhaps you are right. I only read a snap shot of his article and thought he was writing from a gospel perspective. I have Jerry Trousdale's book.where he is documenting a gospel move in sub Sahara Africa. It appears great numbers of moslems are turning to Christ through visions and dreams.

We know two gospel moves of God are taking place and are being documented. In both countries the church is growing and victorious. But the church is being persecuted in both countries. I refer to China and Iran.

In the late 1940's communism took over China. Mao Tse Tung threw the western missionaries. Prior to that time the gospel made some nominal strides. People thought Christianity was gone and Marx had triumphed. When Nixon normaluzed our relations with China observers found a vibrant house church movement in the millions. The revival still continues.

A lesser known but more recent example is Iran. In 1979 there was less than 500 believers under the Shaw. That year Islamic extremist under Khoemini took over. For sure people thought that Islam had triumphed over the gospel of Christ. What is emerging out of Iran is a vibrant victorious church. But one under persecution.

Estimates range from 100,000 to 1,000,000 believers in Iran. But even if you go with the low figure, it is nothing short of miraculous to see the number of believers jump from a few hundred to the tens of thousands in thirty years. VV.O.M estimates 500 pr more people a day are coming to Christ. Mainly through the internet and sat connections. Also through dreams and visions.

Two conclusions I draw. Communism and Islam have created a hunger in the people. These idealogies cannot satisfy that hunger. Only Jesus can. Also in China and Iran the church is persecuted and quite severely. But it is growing. And exploding.

I could say more but I bievers the church in China, Iran and other parts of the world, the persecuted church will be the answer to the apostate church.

Bearmaster.

 2012/5/24 10:53
Trekker
Member



Joined: 2011/7/29
Posts: 683
northern USA

 Re: Are we on the brink of Apostacy?

At the brink of apostasy? Don't you think we actually went over that cliff a long time ago? Not all churches, but most. And certainly every mainline denomination. The stench coming out of most churches today is so bad i can't even bear to read the newspaper hardly anymore.

Ya know, this one old woman who lived in the neighborhood i grew up in had a GREAT idea and she carried it out for many years: she held a summer Bible school class in her garage every year and went around the neighborhood inviting children to come. It was in her very clean, tidy garage, with the door wide open. She held Bible verse memorization contests and prayer and so forth. Never too long lest kids become bored or restless. She really had a gift for that sort of ministry.

I think maybe the same idea could be carried over to adults, with church being held in garages and barns. However, one can expect to run up against neighbors complaining about cars, etc so the gathering would have to be small. But i think Christians are going to have to soon get out of that mindset of the big, organized, institutional-like setting anyway, as the tide is rising.


EDIT: Oh ok, now i see in another post you made that you said "I agree with both Lysa and JIG about not being on the brink, this was written over 50 years ago and Tozer..."

 2012/5/24 11:20Profile









 Re:

Hi Trekker, the question that I posed in the title was a rhetorical question for me. This was the question that Tozer was asking 50 years ago..........bro Frank

 2012/5/24 11:26
ArtB
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 431
New York

 Re:

KingJimmy wrtoe:

"by KingJimmy on 2012/5/23 14:38:48

Christianity is in decline in most of the West, without a doubt. Western Europe is clearly post Christian, Christians are a small minority. 58% of the United kingdom (England, Great Britain) are listed as Christians. But only 15% go to Church at least once a month. and those who do go to Church are primarily the elderly.

There are undoubtedly pockets of apostasy. But, outside of the West, and across the globe, Christianity has been experiencing an amazing expansion since the missionary movement that began in the 1800's, and then became a blaze with the rise of the Pentecostal movement in the early 1900's. ..."

I thought I would check it out via Operation World. I was pleased to see that in Brazil, evangelicals are now 26.2% of the population. Last I looked about 10 years ago, evangelicals were just 15% of the population.

Catholicism in Brazil has decreased to 65.1%. Furthermore, and even more telling is the fact that in Brazil, more evangelicals go to Church on a Sunday weekly than do Catholics.

Of the non-Christians, The census revealed that only 1.3% identified themselves solely as Spiritist in the census, practicing the Afro-Brazilian cults (such as Candomblé, Macumba, Umbanda) that were introduced into South America, and Central and South America, via the slave trade from Africa by their Portegueese and Spanish conquerors.

In reality according to Operation World, "one-third or more Brazilians visit Spiritist priests or guides; many quite happily practice Catholicism and Spiritism together."

A few years ago the Catholic Papacy had a meeting of their Bishops in Rome as to what to do about stemming South and Central American Catholics from becoming Evangelicals whom they still call Protestants. An Arch-Bishop at the meeting pointed out that when the people want to be freed from demons and have a closer relation with God, they go to the evangelicals. If they wish to organize a labor union, they go to the Catholic Priest.

The situation is similar for the other Countries in South and Central America.


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Arthur Biele

 2012/5/24 12:32Profile





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