Monroe, LA - USA
| Re: |
I cannot help but resonate the same sentiment that Jesus-is-GOD expressed .... THIS COULD VERY WELL ALL BE A SET-UP!!!! I keep reading in all of my research "apparent suicide" ... Even the V.O.M. website says: "Tom appears to have chosen to take his own life". What witnesses do we have to prove that he actually did so? Paul clearly instructs us: 1Ti 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.
What good Christian witnesses saw the "apparent suicide". Are we taking all of our information from the polluted news media that none of us trust?
Several years ago, Our church was earnestly praying for a family of a man who had taken a stand in a town in the USA against the growing acceptance of homosexuality as "OK" and normal. In love, he was preaching to people that it was a sin and that they needed to repent in order to be right with God and go to heaven. He and his wife went to some kind of vacation motel that had an open top roof. Somehow, some people climbed in the top, and went down to murder his wife. The last memories that he had of his wife was that she was screaming for him to flee that they would kill him too. The murderers were gone when the police arrived, and all of the "evidence" said that he had killed his wife. He spent many years in prison after that. I don't know what ever became of the situation, but I do know that set-ups DO HAPPEN!
What better way to hinder a work that some people HATE than to stage a molestation case ... and then write a "suicide note", and then to find him in a position that makes it appear that he took his life?
Perhaps I am "in denial", but I will not receive either accusation (inappropriate behavior nor suicide)against this elder until a true and faithful Christian can back it up with personal witness. After suffering so much for Christ he would have had to have lost his mind to do such thing, although it is possible, it is highly unlikely.
Judgment day will reveal all of the facts.
| 2012/4/22 23:15||Profile|
| Re: |
The reason I stated at the beginning of this thread that we need to pray is for the same reason that some have stated. Neil is right that if all this is true we should most certainly pray for the little girl and her family, but I also am praying that truth will prevail.
Even the elect would be deceived in these days if it were possible. At this point it seems to only be allegations. We must be able to recognize that in our day and age it is very easy to pin men down with sexual harassment charges because society in general is biased against men in this way, it seems to me to be similar in nature to the Salem witch trials. Nothing has changed with human nature. There is a running mentality of suspicion in many peoples minds that all men are perverts and molesters. It is common dogma. I personally know people who have been alleged to have done these things and come to find out they were just simply and purely innocent.
1 Corinthians 13 tells us to "believe all things." I take that to mean we must trust and hope for the best in every situation and assume innocence unless necessity deems that guilt is pure and unassailable.
We need to do unto others as we would have others do unto us. Love covers a multitude of sins. The body of Christ ought to be a place where that occurs. If there is going to be persecution in our western world today, I suspect it will be far more devious and less obvious than was done in days gone by. Smearing reputations is a far more effective means of silencing the witness of martyrs. Fortunately we have the Holy Spirit to "Guide us into all truth."
None of what I am saying is to detract from the very real possibility that these allegations may be true. But I for one, do not want to believe them unless the proof is in the pudding. We have to remember that Jesus was sentenced for a lie. We should not be surprised if the same happens to his followers.
Thank you Neil for pointing out that we should pray for the girl. This is what the Body of Christ ought to be for. Some of us see what others may not.
I also would suggest that we pray for the thousands of impressionable believers who may be weak in the faith who have been followers and supporters of this ministry. They may be disenfranchised in a hard to deal with way.
| 2012/4/22 23:49||Profile|
| Re: |
I agree, Lordoitagain. And I am going to pray for the family and for the work of the Lord to go forth and healing for all. And that we will keep our hearts right before the Lord. As we dont really know what happened and no one can cast a stone. God help us all.
| 2012/4/23 2:21||Profile|
| Re: Back to basics|
As I have prayed with a sad heart over the situation the Spirit said don't judge, pray. Thus I have been praying for God's mercy and comfort on all parties involved. So praying for the minist4y of VOM to continue. Since persecution will increse in these evil days this ministry will be needed more than ever.
We may never know,the dynamics if what transpired for this brother to take his life. But what was spoken to me I would convey to the forum. Pleaded don't judge pray.
Let us realize that what is taking place here is an attack of the enemy. This is the bigger picture. Because of the ministry that VOM is engaged in the demonic forces of bell are coming against it and other ministries that do kingdom work. This the tragedy at VOM should serve as a wake up call to all of us to watch and pray so that we will not fall into temptation.
Saints the devil is not some abstract theogical idea that we type on our key boards. He is real and he hates believers anf he will destroy them is allowed. Though he has been defeated at the cross and is power is limited we must never underestimate him. The early church took the devil seriouky and so must we.
With so many spiritual leaders falling into sin and health afflictions it is more urgent than ever to keep ourselves and our spiritual leaders in prayer. And to keep praying for them.
Also going back to Vince Lombardie. It is time to get back to basics. Believer this is a Bible. I know. I know. This is not marvelous theology. But saints look. If you don't accept it from me take it from one of SI's own Keith Daniels. In his message on the word of God he has said sin will keep you away from the Bible ir the Bible keep you away from sin.
Jesus used scripture to resist the devil and orayer. So this lesson from VOM should drive us to be in orayer and the word so we do not fall.
Bearmaster who is standing down.
| 2012/4/23 7:37|
Monroe, LA - USA
| Re: |
"We may never know,the dynamics if what transpired for this brother to take his life."
Why do we continue to parrot an accusation that we do not know if it is true or not???
Who saw him take his life? If he was found in a position with a gun in a position of suicide or a noose or whatever, that does not mean that he did it. There are cruel murderers who HATE what V.O.M. is doing. A group of armed men could very well have marched him into that warehouse and put him in that position. Were there cameras?
Again, what good faithful Christian saw him do it?
1Ti 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.
Last week, a friend of mine, his wife and son were in church down near Mexico City. 8 armed men entered the sanctuary during the service and robbed everybody and took the sound system and instruments and all, and left unharmed. We are in the days of increased violence. Here in the USA, such criminals know that they have to handle it in a much more sly manner if they will accomplish their mischief.
God saw it all!
| 2012/4/23 8:02||Profile|
| Re: Lirddoitagain|
All the mire reason to be faithful in prayer and the word.
| 2012/4/23 9:04|
| Re: |
To be clear, I was not intending at all to "throw stones". My prayer is this: Lord, if this was just some "set-up", bring it to light so that all may see. Pray for Tom's friends, family, the ministry of VOM, etc. And Lord, if this was as it simply appears to be, let this be a picturesque warning to all in the Body to "beware when they ythink they stand, lest they fall, and be also with this little girl." maybe I shouldn't have started a different thread altogether, but my only point was that IF this happened as it all seems at facie value, it should be a warning to all in the Body to remember our first love, stay in the Spirit's grace in Prayer & His Word, stay accountable in fellowship with a true local Body of believers in NT fashion, and don't lose our intimacy with Christ or we are all subject to all kinds of pitfalls still hiding in the dark corners of our flesh. I know I am, and I know by God's Word we are all no different. One may be more apt to this or that sin, but apart from Grace & intimacy with the Father, that's where we all eviate to: our flesh. That's why we can have preachers on fire for years and later fellowshipping with "preachers" like Rick Warren who water down the Gospel, support a Babylonian system of the great harlot and her daughters, etc. That is how ANYONE can fall into horrible sin. If/when we begin to stray from intimacy with Him and get focused on any/everything else (even "good" things, like ministry). These are perilous days, the devil is beginning to see his time is getting shorter, judgement begins at the house of God, and if it were possible, even the very elect would be deceived. It's not how we start brothers/sisters, but how we finish that counts in eternity. I hope this was a "set-up", but if it wasn't, I hope it wakes some up who are "coasting" spiritually and who's prayer/Word time has long dried up. Either way, may God use what the devil meant for bad for His good!!!!
| 2012/4/23 9:23|
I also would suggest that we pray for the thousands of impressionable believers who may be weak in the faith who have been followers and supporters of this ministry. They may be disenfranchised in a hard to deal with way
this is precisely what i find MOST GRIEVOUS about this whole thing.
VOM was a 'gold standard" ministry. Brother Andrew changed the world, to the extent, i myself am stashing Bibles, cases, because of not only his example, but what the Holy Spirit revealed to me.\
i have sorrow unceasing about this all, becoz VOM was NOT one of those terrible circus's you see on TBN and other media...and now?
just Godly sorrow.
| 2012/4/23 9:43|
| Re: "Areadymind"|
VOM said they knew nothing about it and this was the first they heard of the allegations regarding the 10 year old girl. Since they are allegations and they just heard about the investigation, that is probably the reason they did not say they were praying for the family. This is a traumatic thing and we should give VOM a break. They are coming out with a press release this week.
On the other hand, if it is true, and especially if there is a history, let's not whitewash or say the Devil set him up? The Devil sets all of us up everyday, but the final choice to fellowship with darkness is our own.
1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
Let us all be warned not to trust in any false security and think we are above falling or turning away from God.
Most of all, we should embrace the truth head on and not make excuses which will further erode the credibility of the Church, today.
| 2012/4/23 10:06||Profile|
| Re: V.O.M.|
Praying for the girl, Tom's family and the VOM ministry.
| 2012/4/23 10:48||Profile|