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CarlosBCG
Member



Joined: 2012/3/10
Posts: 87


 Re: Verses that supposedly point to loosing salvation examined...

I very much appreciate the responses but I have a few additional comments to make if I might.

My purpose in starting this thread was not to discuss but rather to find alternative interpretations of the verses in question from folks who believe they can lose their salvation and who stand on some of the verses I intended to bring up.

Yes...some discussion could occur through such varied interpretations but I have been on forums overall long enough to realize that there is very little chance that anyone will change their mind through even such limited discussion.

The problem I see in some of the responses is that it appears that some of you have come to a certain point of accomodation regarding this issue. I mean in the sense that no one has changed their mind and discussions have happened all over about it so therefore...no sense discussing it again.

That it is better to leave this issue aside and focus on other things which some of you have come to see as more important or perhaps fruitful.

The problem I see with that is that the idea of losing salvation strikes at the very core of who God has made us to be in the spirit. The very core of what the Gospel is about. And it leads in the lives of many to a lack of fruitfulness in that embracing a loss of salvation belief causes them to never be certain of God's unconditional love, absolute forgiveness, and certainty in their relationship to Him.

They are never able to get past a concern of losing their salvation and on to being fruitful in the Kingdom. This is especially true with those who are very weak in various areas of sin but where they do repent and genuinely so from instances of sin.

The only way out of their sin overall is to latch on to Christ for dear life and to look beyond their sin to Christ and to keep looking to Christ as they trust God through the Gospel and act in the capacity of the new man that God has made them to be in the spirit to put to death the misdeeds of the body.

But...they can't really do that in my experience if every time they fall they begin to think they are headed for hell all over again.

Still for me personally...it's fine if it would be advisable to not solicit various interpretations of these verses against posts where I lay out what I think is the correct interpretation on this forum.

My friend who respects many on this forum was the one who encouraged me to come here and allow what I say about these verses to be tested in the light of what others might say.

Carlos

 2012/4/21 14:10Profile
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

Hi Carlos,

Since you have posted here before I just wonder why you feel like you have to keep mentioning that your friend encouraged you to start this thread?

I guess I am missing the significance of that since you are already acquainted with SI.

 2012/4/21 14:40Profile
CarlosBCG
Member



Joined: 2012/3/10
Posts: 87


 Re:

Sorry if I mention that too much Pilgrim.

I just was wanting to make clear why I was starting this thread. That it wasn't from a desire to actually get into an all out discussion of this topic but rather to get alternative interpretations of various verses to allow me and my friend to have a more comprehensive and well rounded discussion on this issue.

I suppose that me and my friend could always just go read some of these other threads but I at least don't really want to take the time to read potentially hundreds of posts to get various interpretations of various verses and thought it could save time.

That's all I intended to really say but I think I will just drop this thread as there doesn't seem to be much enthusiasm here to get into this.

Carlos

 2012/4/21 16:32Profile
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

Hi Carlos,

Thanks for the explanation. There is probably not much interest on this topic because as you mentioned there are so many other threads about it and people are either all talked out on it, don't want to rewrite what they have spent much time writing or just plain burned out on the topic.

Pilgrim

 2012/4/21 16:50Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

hi russ im glad some asked me that question ,,,,it is sunday morning where i am im about to go to fellowship

brother i will give you my explanation when i get home

blessings

 2012/4/21 18:58Profile
CarlosBCG
Member



Joined: 2012/3/10
Posts: 87


 Re:

Can someone please provide me with a link to the BEST thread on this forum dealing with the loss of salvation perspective?

I absolutely can't stand the way this forum operates and it is difficult for me to find such a thread myself as a result but would like to see what others have said about this here.

Thanks.

Carlos

 2012/4/22 1:37Profile
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

Threads are hard to find mainly because they are not categorized. That's why the same subjects keep coming up, over and over again. I actually sympathize with your plight. The webmaster probably needs some technical assistance because a good user friendly forum can be constructed and still be secure. But, it also takes time and resources.

Pilgrim

 2012/4/22 2:03Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

hi there russ

who are the warnings for you asked \\


i see a the warnings as multple purpose

one to bring the unsaved in the church to a saving repentence

we have weat and tares in the church

two as a rod of love towards the saved and secure

in the same way a loving father watches his children as they play in the frount yard near the highway
he always sees the dangers of the busy road with trucks and cars ,,and so the eyes of the father are always open on his children , and the gates are locked ,,but as a good father he warns his children not too go out the gate or else they will be destroyed by trucks and cars
but always the the good father noes he will not take his eyes off his children wile they play near the gate

and he is not lieing about the destruction that would happen if they wander beoned the gate

if he sees one climbing over the gate ,,he yells and warns them to abide in the yard ,,and folows through with a swift rubuke and strike with his rod that comferts ,,and chasens his child lifting him off the fence and placing him back in the yard


i see in scripture both absulte security in some verses that are as a prophetic promise that our god is fullfilling wile he uses warnings to acomplish and teach his children


John, Chapter 6



037:

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.



038:

For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.



039:

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.



040:

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.


these words will come to pass ,,there are a chosesn people that the father has givern the son ,and he knows who are his sheep for as we have herd they hears his voice and follow him and they shall never perish

i take these verse at face value ,and as a literl prophect promise ,,,,and the warnings in the contex i described above ,,,we are to take heed all of us ,and continualy make our call and election sure

theres some verses in the book of acts that is a perfect description or picture of th salvation of the elect ,,,



Acts, Chapter 27



022:

And now I exhort you to be of good cheer: for there shall be no loss of any man's life among you, but of the ship.



023:

For there stood by me this night the angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve,



024:

Saying, Fear not, Paul; thou must be brought before Caesar: and, lo, God hath given thee all them that sail with thee.



025:

Wherefore, sirs, be of good cheer: for I believe God, that it shall be even as it was told me.



026:

Howbeit we must be cast upon a certain island.



027:

But when the fourteenth night was come, as we were driven up and down in Adria, about midnight the shipmen deemed that they drew near to some country;



028:

And sounded, and found it twenty fathoms: and when they had gone a little further, they sounded again, and found it fifteen fathoms.



029:

Then fearing lest we should have fallen upon rocks, they cast four anchors out of the stern, and wished for the day.



030:

And as the shipmen were about to flee out of the ship, when they had let down the boat into the sea, under colour as though they would have cast anchors out of the foreship,



031:

Paul said to the centurion and to the soldiers, Except these abide in the ship, ye cannot be saved.


we see a picture of salvation of the elect,, that they will come to a safe passage through the seas of tribulation and temtation ,,,,paul says they will be no loses of life ,,,,it is a promise givern by an angle ,and he said i believe , it shall be as it was told to me

theres is nothing that will change the councle of gods sovern will to save those whom he chose in christ ,in the boat ,all that the father has givern me WILL come to me ,and i will not cast him out

but in verse 31 we see the picture of christs word , except you abide in the ship you can not be saved
this verse is a reflection of this verse as an anoligy

thers no contraictions,,,, the first promise that none will perish ,,is a godward promise in a souvern way, the seconed is a man ward witness , in a human way

the sovernty of god
the resonsability and freedom of man

all things work according to the councel of his will

no man can come to me unless my father draws him
come to me all you who labour and are heavy laden


the whole bible is as expresion of gods sovernty in saving people
and men coming to god and and by there own semi free will abeaying god


when we see the promises
and when we see warnings

we are to see two levels of truth a higher truth ,and a lower truth ,, one is in the mind of god the other is in the minds of men
that run parale to the cross

blessings

 2012/4/22 4:06Profile









 Re: Who are the warnings...Etc

Quote:
i see in scripture both absulte security in some verses that are as a prophetic promise that our god is fullfilling wile he uses warnings to acomplish and teach his children



Really nice way of putting a difficult truth.

 2012/4/22 4:29
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

thank you brother

i truly do not want to upset anyone ,and i respect others views on this subject ,,,and still love the fellow ship of both camps

 2012/4/22 5:20Profile





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