| Re: |
I have not bothered to read all the posts... so my comment is not directed at anyone, or in response to anything other than the title of this thread.
So what if a baptist minister endorsed Romney? How many Christians endorsed McCain? Granted Palin is a professing Christian, but McCain would have been president, not her.
It's ok for Christians to endorse a heathen so long as he is conservative... but a Mormon?
Sometimes I think Christians need to seriously take a course in logic.
| 2012/5/3 9:55|
| Re: |
"Politics divides. That is the nature of the "party spirit"."
Amen Pilgrim. "It's ok for Christians to endorse a heathen so long as he is conservative... but a Mormon?
Sometimes I think Christians need to seriously take a course in logic."
Agreed Krispy, not much logic there. Hey bro Bear, if someone always says " I am not defending someone," and then goes on and defends them, its called not taking a stand on anything. Its a way of straddling the fence. Christians down through the centuries have taken bold stands and paid severly, often with their lives. Mormonism is a cult, its satanic in origin and it denies every tenet of the Christian faith. If one wants to vote for such a man, then one should be bold enough to say it. I believe that many Christians will just stay home, which is something I suppose..............bro Frank
| 2012/5/3 10:43|
| Re: |
The Last time I voted was for Reagen's first term. I loved that man so much, but half way into his term I learned too much. Enough to know where that man that I loved was headed in reality. Rex 84 amongst many other things.
That broke my heart seriously, as he was my last hero and then finding out that everyone since, that has run for that office, was a hand picked globalist to further the globalist plans toward a nwo.
There was no one left to vote FOR and I realized in the early 80's, that we were in the last times and to come out from them and be seperate from the powers of this world.
| 2012/5/3 10:54|
beloved, i would be very cool about using any 'names' of any past operations on a website....that operation you mentioned is just the tip of the iceberg. of course, we'll have chris popping in to label you "conspiracy theorist", which is a word framing device used to denigrate individuals, who get a bit too close to truth.
so be cool.
Frank, bear, i wish you bro's had been around in the lead up to war in Iraq, late 2002 to mid 2003. You have never seen so many cheerleaders, spewing and "discussing" the Scriptural tenets of a "just war", ooorahing and cheerleading President Bush, as he "went after" saddam hussein...some of these posters are still here....they know who they are.
it was enough to make one soul sick with grief...i think i got tossed from the forum...Praise God.
the last "good" President was Ike, and he warned us...about the 'spirit of babylon', except that dear man called it something else.
| 2012/5/3 11:31|
| Re: J-i-G|
Hey yall dont be so hard on everybody Jesus said Father forgive them for they dont know what they do and he said this from the cross of suffering for them.
Stephen said to the Lord Jesus, who stood up while he was being stone for his witness, lay not this sin to their charge because he wanted them to be forgiven even though they were stoning him.
So lighten up and realize as Christians our kingdom is not of this world no matter who is president and so let us pray that Gods will is done on earth in reaching the lost for Jesus and making His presence known in this world.
from brother rbanks
| 2012/5/3 11:43||Profile|
| Re: |
Hey bro Bear, if someone always says " I am not defending someone," and then goes on and defends them, its called not taking a stand on anything. Its a way of straddling the fence. Christians down through the centuries have taken bold stands and paid severly, often with their lives. Mormonism is a cult, its satanic in origin and it denies every tenet of the Christian faith. If one wants to vote for such a man, then one should be bold enough to say it. I believe that many Christians will just stay home, which is something I suppose..............bro Frank
I take that this is directed at me?
Brother, this is simply untrue. I can caution someone before they spread something that might very well be a LIE (the "white horse prophecy") without "taking a stand" upon Mormonism or even Mitt Romney.
In the past here on SermonIndex, I urged the same type of caution when individuals were repeating similar conspiracy theories about Obama being a "Muslim" or implying that he was born in Kenya. Hopefully, people are wise enough to not call that an "endorsement" of Obama or "straddling the fence" on his candidacy either.
Yes, it is true that many Christians have paid dearly for taking bold stands on certain issues. However, there is a difference between taking a stand on a black-and-white, essential DOCTRINE and a mere doctrinal OPINION. I suspect that many people often spread opinions "in the name of Jesus" and think that they are persecuted for doing so.
In this case, no one is arguing about the origins of Mormonism. No one is arguing about the origins of Catholicism. No one is arguing about the origins of Liberation Theology cults. When I urged caution last night, it was in the case of spreading some "white horse prophecy" around as if it were true. Like I also said, its validity is very much in question. Yet, there was no mention of this when it is spoken of. It is simply mentioned just like the most "spiritual" gossip or conspiracy theories by some believers across America.
As for the boldness of voting in November: I may very well do so. I may decide that Mitt Romney is the better choice of the two primary candidates. Then again, I might not. Regardless, it will come only after much prayer and study.
Some of have stated repeatedly that this "is not about voting." Yet, it seems like the underlying implication is always there about WHO someone can vote for. If we are going to say that this isn't about voting and agree that one should pray before they come to a conclusion, then why push the issue in rebuttal? Is saying that we will pray and study before making a decision not enough?
Still, no one here should suppose or imply that a prayerful believer who simply decides upon one man over another in a general election is immature, unspiritual, worldly or dwelling in Babylon. Such an implication denies those believers the grace that we often hold for ourselves.
In regard to what I said to bearmaster, it was to simply urge caution before spreading a myth that may not even be true. As believers, our purity in speech should be so that if we decide to share such things, we are clear that it might not even be true. This is the problem with conspiracy theories. It isn't that someone mentions them. Rather, it is that they are seldom mentioned with the caution that they might not even be true -- even if we believe them to be so. This is why some people put such conspiracies in the same category as gossip and slander.
No one should suppose or suggest that anyone who questions the validity of such a thing to be "defending" someone or "straddling the fence" if they are simply trying to clarify the difference between truth and lie, fact and fiction.
I hope that this makes a little more sense.
| 2012/5/3 11:44||Profile|
| Re: J-i-G|
Hi Neil, I am sure there were many justifying that war. There is a thing called " cultural winds," meaning that in every generation, there are those who argue for whatever the winds have blown in, whether it be slavery or war or politics, it just depends on how the wind is blowing at the time. Yet, all down through history, there have been men who have made bold stands, led by the Holy Spirit and the Word of God that never changes. They were typically hated at the time by the nay-sayers and the ones who would not stand up lest they be treated the same. Its always easy to love a dead prophet, but so many times men of God have stood alone as they defied the cultural winds of their times.
In every generation, God will have His people who do not run with the multitude, whose wisdom is not common wisdom, but whose wisdom comes from above. Men from the last century would be guys like Ravenhill and Tozer and Wilkerson. I praise God for these men and others who ultimately fear God and not men. The Lord would have us hot or cold, but we know what He thinks of luke-warmness. There is a time to stand up and be bold, I would suggest to Christendom that the time is now. If not now, when? Or, shall they simply get lost is a maze of rationale and logic? ................bro Frank
| 2012/5/3 12:53|
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11
| Re: |
Because of the length of this discussion and also because of the nature of it being politics we want to cut it short. There are some good valid concerns and thoughts that were expressed. Yet at the same time we must be focused more on the kingdom of Christ and eternity then an election of a country. May God give us all the right balance. Though it is valid to vote and participate if your conscience is not bothered by it.
We are locked this thread and ask that this exact conversation is not raised again specifically on the forums. I am going to post brother franks article again and it is an interesting point of view and something to consider:
Will there be a Christian sell-out? Lets boycott the election and stand up for Jesus
Posted by appolus on April 23, 2012
It will be interesting to see how the Evangelical community responds to Governor Romney. The vast majority of Evangelicals consider Mormonism to be a cult and heretical. Will they vote for a heretic? Will they vote for , not only a cult member, but one of high standing within the cult? It seems clear to me that God is creating a set of circumstances to expose what truly lies in the hearts of those who call themselves Christians. For decades now the notion has been put forward, as a reason for being involved in politics, that we need more Christian men on Capitol Hill, we need a Christian man in the White-house. No where was this more clearly seen and heard than when President Bush was running and re-running for office. Now, where will all those arguments go? Will we be deafened by the silence of those whose true loyalty may lie in other places rather than in the Lord? Will we hear perhaps that Mormonism is not really that bad, it may not even be a cult ( shush, no using the cult word for the next 6 months, it will make people very uncomfortable)
Lets speak plainly hear folks, Mormons deny the very deity of Christ, yes they say He is God, but a God, as you too could be if you do enough works. What about inter-racial marriage, what would Mr Romney say about that, or should we not ask? Is every tenet of the faith to be abandoned and noses to be held in order to vote for this man? Shall we simply roll out the lesser of two evils, logic. The most persuasive one I have heard to date is the fact that he is pro-life, but, when he was trying to woo the voters in the north-east, he was more than a little quiet on the subject.
Brothers and sisters, the Lord is trying to teach America I believe, He is trying to reach them. Will you roll around in the mire that is politics? Will you enter this system that even the unsaved recognize as totally broken and corrupt and bought and paid for ? Will you , by participating, be participating in the perpetuation of something that is very ugly? Will you convince yourself that by accident of birth you dwell in a democracy therefore you must vote? Do we have a Scripture for that position? Listen brothers and sisters of America, I believe that the Lord is waiting, waiting on His people to come out of Babylon. There is a temple to be rebuilt, there are broken down walls, there are cities without walls. Will you stay and play in comfortable Babylon and be all wrapped up and entangled in the affairs of the world rather than be about the Lords business? I know that we must be in the world but must we be off it?
The Lord is waiting. Too long have we celebrated independence in this country when the very essence of our relationship is dependence. We are so self-sufficient, we believe that we have need of nothing, yet our hearts have become hard to the voice of God and His ways. The prophets of the world cry out to you through television and radio, men who have enriched themselves by leading Gods people astray. They convince you to be a part of a system that is rotten and corrupt to the core. They tell you that you must vote, that this election, just like all the others, is the most important one. Its funny how the next election is always the most important one. And through all this God is waiting, He is warning, He is judging. He waits for His people who have committed adultery with the world to return to Him seeking Him with their whole hearts.
His heart is to rend the heavens and come down, to a hear a people, who would humble themselves and repent and turn from their wicked ways. Its time to stop seeking lovers who will give you what you want and seek the Lord your God with all of your heart. Perhaps if Christians would stand up and tell the world that we are boycotting this corrupt system and that we refuse to be part of it anymore, that this would be the trigger that would unite us under a banner of truth and begin to show the world a genuine expression of the Lord Jesus Christ? Brothers and sisters, come out of Babylon, boycott this coming election and let the little men know that we are no longer for sale.
. bro Frank
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
| 2012/5/3 13:00||Profile|
| Re: |
The Last time I voted was for Reagen's first term.
I would like to point out that I was not yet old enough to vote for Reagan for his SECOND term. I was but 17.
I'm not sayin' you're old or anything like that, Ann...
| 2012/5/3 13:01|
| Re: |
And PRAISE GOD that there are many of us here who are uncompromising, fearless children of God, and on fire for God (via love and passion for His Name) REGARDLESS of whether or not we choose one candidate over another in an election!
I do fear that we might place ourselves "above" others when we get angry that others don't share our views. We shouldn't be haughty with our views by suggesting that others who don't share our views are somehow less spiritual (or worse) or that we are "hated" by mere differences of opinion.
And of course, it would be ridiculous to suggest that those who might caution others about being caught up in the spreading of myths, half-truths, lies or conspiracy theories -- especially those "apolitical" individuals who tend to debate such things more than others -- are somehow "arguing for whatever winds have blown in" depending "on how the wind is blowing at the time."
But thank God that we aren't that people, right? We aren't condescending with those who don't share our views on such matters. We aren't lukewarm. We aren't given to spreading rumors or hearsay. We are children of God. We are the children of light. We have the wisdom of God within us...as we seek His face and sit at His feet and learn from His Word. We don't follow the wisdom of this world but the wisdom imparted to us as we seek the Lord.
This is why, in matters like this, I suggest that we should just allow individuals the grace to pray sincerely and wholeheartedly and act with a clear conscience as we are led by the Lord.
| 2012/5/3 13:09||Profile|