| We are commanded to judge!|
I've only been on this forum a short time. In that time I have had some great conversations about different topics. However, at times I have made comments about different doctrines that I perceive to be heretical, and also warned about several nationally (and some world-wide) "Church leaders". Popular Christian "leaders".
Each time I have done this there is always someone who pops in, or IM's me and accuses me of being judgemental, unloving, unChristian, and one even suggested that I am not saved... not noticing that they are doing the very thing they are condemning me for.
So... come, lets reason together concerning whether a Christian should judge things, and more specifically what the BIBLE has to say about it... is it "unloving" to judge doctrine and discipline sin?
Since it is God Himself, the very God of love, who has commanded the believer to judge doctrine and to exercise discernment between truth and error and to separate from false teaching and to discipline sin, it could not possibly be contrary to love to do these things!
The loving God commands believers to expose error. There is only one right doctrine, and that is the doctrine of the apostles as we have it in the New Testament Scriptures, and every doctrine that is contrary to that is false and is to be exposed. The Lord's apostles did this repeatedly. The loving apostle Paul, for example, in his epistles to the preacher Timothy, warned about false teachers and compromises BY NAME 10 different times (1 Tim. 1:20; 2 Tim. 1:15; 2:17; 3:8; 4:12, 14). He said:
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some" (2 Tim. 2:15-18).
Notice how the loving apostle Paul instructed Timothy, another loving and faithful preacher of that day. He told him to study the Word of God that he might know sound doctrine, but he did not stop there. Timothy was not merely to know the truth for himself and be content with that; he was not merely to be "positive" for the truth; he was to go beyond that to expose and warn about those who taught false things. To illustrate how Timothy was to deal with error, the loving Paul used the specific example of two preachers of his day, Hymenaeus and Philetus. They had erred from the truth in spiritualizing a prophetic event and Paul said they were dangerous. He used very strong language to condemn them.
We must understand that these two men were professing Christians of that day, and yet Paul did not hesitate to expose and warn of them. Can you imagine how Hymenaeus and Philetus felt about Paul's warning? Surely they were angry with him for saying that their doctrine was not sound. "Who does that Paul think he is, anyway!" And think of how their followers must have felt toward Paul. Doubtless they attacked Paul as unloving and mean-spirited and as puffed up in his own sense of importance. Doubtless, Hymenaeus and Philetus and their followers treated the Pauls and Timothys and Tituses of that day precisely as the ecumenists today treat Christian who is striving against error.
What if Timothy himself had replied to Paul: "Paul, I don't think I will follow that pattern. It doesn't seem to be very loving to run around exposing other believers as false. You are too harsh, Paul. You need to live and let live. Are we not all the body of Christ? Don't you love Hymenaeus and Philetus? Don't they love Jesus, too? Why are you so mean-spirited and narrow-minded? Leave judgment to the Lord. Your business is simply to love, and love doesn't judge"? Would Timothy have thereby been accepted in his ministry? Would God have rewarded him for taking such a position?
In fact, Paul was not being unloving when he exposed Hymenaeus and Philetus as false teachers. He was being very loving. In so doing,
Paul revealed his love for Jesus, who is the Truth; and he revealed his love for the church, which is the pillar and ground of the truth; and he revealed his love for the Lord's sheep, because he was willing to protect them from dangerous wolves. Furthermore, he thereby revealed his love for Hymenaeus and Philetus themselves, because if we love someone we will speak plainly about things that will destroy them, and probably nothing is more destructive than false teaching.
True Christian love exposes error and warns of its danger.
LOVE PREACHES HOLY LIVING AND DISCIPLINES SIN
Love also demands holy living and disciplines sin. In almost every epistle to the churches, we see that the apostles demanded strict holy living and reproved those who were sinning. When the loving apostle Paul wrote to the preacher Titus to instruct him in how to conduct his ministry, he said:
"For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee" (Titus 2:11-15).
Notice what Titus, in Christian love, was instructed to do. He was told that the true grace of God saves men freely through faith in the sacrifice of Christ (Eph. 2:8-9), but that same grace also teaches believers to live godly, separated lives. True grace does not teach believers that they can live as they please. That is not grace but license. It is a misuse of grace. It is the old error of antinomianism, which taught that believers, because they are forgiven, are free to live pretty much howsoever they will. Paul rebuked that wicked error and taught Titus that he was to preach strict holy living. He was to SPEAK, AND EXHORT, AND REBUKE WITH ALL AUTHORITY."
What if Titus had said to Paul, "Paul, I don't want to be so harsh-sounding in my preaching. I don't think it is loving to be so judgmental about how the Lord's people live. I think I will tone down the preaching so it sounds more loving"? Would Titus have thereby been accepted in his ministry? Would God have rewarded him for taking such a position?
Furthermore, when believers ignore this strong preaching on holy living and they openly sin, they are to be disciplined. The church at Corinth was instructed in this fashion. There was a believer in Corinth who was living in fornication; and instead of judging him the church was "puffed up." This carnal church had the philosophy of tolerance toward sin and error, and they were proud of their spirit of non-judgmentalism! The loving apostle Paul twice rebuked them for this great error (1 Cor. 5:1-6; 2 Cor. 11:1-4). He instructed them to repent of their broadmindedness and to judge sin and to judge error.
What if the church at Corinth had replied to Paul, "We don't accept what you are saying. Who are we to judge others? Are we not sinners ourselves? Do we not have our own problems to take care of? We say that judgment should be left up to God, and for ourselves we will just love and be loved." Would the church at Corinth have thereby been accepted? Would God have rewarded them for such a thing?
Of course not. True Christian love preaches holy living and it rebukes and disciplines sin. It is not the love of God that causes professing saints to overlook sin and error; it is carnality and a spirit of disobedience to God's Word.
To preach strongly against sin is to love people, because sin defiles and destroys. To rebuke sin is to love the church of God, because sin defiles His church. Paul warned the church at Corinth that they must deal with sin because, "a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump" (1 Cor. 5:6). To preach boldly and plainly against sin is also to love God, because sin is against the holy God and because God has commanded us to rebuke it.
True Christian love preaches strict holy living and disciplines sin.
LOVE CONTENDS FOR THE FAITH
Furthermore, it is a very loving thing to contend for the faith. The loving Jude demanded this:
"Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort YOU THAT YE SHOULD EARNESTLY CONTEND FOR THE FAITH WHICH WAS ONCE DELIVERED UNTO THE SAINTS" (Jude 3).
Notice how this responsibility is described. The loving Holy Spirit uses the Greek word epagonizomai. It is a very strong word and is well translated in our Authorized Version by the English words "earnestly contend." It means to strive for, to fight for, to defend against, but also to do that in a vigorous, earnest manner.
And this is not a responsibility that is given only to preachers. Jude is addressing believers in general. It is every Christian's duty to engage in this battle.
And notice more carefully exactly what we are to fight for -- "the faith once delivered to the saints." This tells us that the Christian faith was completed in the days of the apostles. It was not left for some Catholic church council hundreds of years later to decide what the faith was. The Christian faith was delivered to the apostles by the Holy Spirit, and it was completed in their day. That "faith once delivered" is the one absolute and complete standard by which doctrine and practice is to be judged. From that day until the Lord returns, the job of every true believer is to fight to defend that one true faith against every false doctrine. Timothy was instructed not to allow "ANY other doctrine" (1 Timothy 1:3). That is a very, very narrow view of doctrinal purity. If a preacher seeks to obey Paul's command in 1 Timothy 1:3 and Jude 3, he will not be able to hold hands with those who have a different doctrine. How could he? His task is to hold the one true faith and to earnestly contend against every false thing! It is absolutely impossible to be ecumenical in any sense while seeking to obey 1 Timothy 1:3 and Jude 3 and other such obligations of the Scriptures.
And in fact, it is a very loving thing to earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints, because the truth sets men free, while error corrupts and destroys. Thus, those who earnestly contend for the faith love men and want to see them walk in the truth; and they love God and want to be faithful to His Word; and they love the Lord's church and want to see it shine in its purity; and they love the Holy Spirit, who is "the Spirit of TRUTH"; and they love the truth itself. The faithful soldier loves those for whom and that for which he fights.
True Christian love earnestly contends for the faith.
LOVE SEPARATES FROM FALSE AND SINFUL THINGS
Finally, true Christian love not only preaches holy living and rebukes and disciplines sin and exposes error and earnestly contends for the faith, but true Christian love goes even further and separates from false and sinful things.
The loving Paul taught the believers at Ephesus that it was not enough for them to live pure moral lives for themselves; they were to separate from and even rebuke sinful things.
"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, BUT RATHER REPROVE THEM" (Ephesians 5:11).
Notice the command that the loving Holy Spirit gives through the loving preacher Paul. Believers are not to have fellowship with evil things, and not only that, but they are to reprove evil things. This is what has gotten the saints into trouble through the ages. Ordinarily, the world doesn't mind if a Christian lives a holy life to himself and his family, as long as he "minds his own business" and doesn't rebuke others for how they live. But as soon as the Christian starts telling other people how they are to live and rebuking sin in them, he finds himself in "hot water." John the Baptist is an example. He did not preach against sin merely in generalities. He was very plain. And when he rebuked Herod for taking his brother's wife contrary to the law of God, he made an implacable enemy of Herod's new wife and her animosity toward him resulted in his death (Matt.
Furthermore, Christians are not only to separate from and rebuke sinful things but also to separate from false doctrine and those who teach it. The following is only one of many commandments to this end. Notice what the loving apostle Paul taught the believers at Rome:
"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them" (Romans 16:17).
There are two obligations here. First, the loving brethren are to mark those who teach false things, which means they are to plainly identify them as to who they are; and secondly, they are to avoid those who teach false things. "Avoid" is a term referring to separation.
And how are we to know what is false? Ecumenists today argue that it is not reasonable to think that a believer can know the truth in such a fashion that he can say that others are wrong. That is not what the Bible teaches, though. The standard for truth is the teaching of the apostles, and that which is contrary to their teaching is false. It is that simple. Where had the believers at Rome learned their doctrine? From the Apostle Paul. Thus, he is instructing them that if they find doctrine that is different from that which he had taught them, they were to reject it and avoid it. The child of God is commanded to study the Word of God and to rightly divide it (2 Tim. 2:15) and then to judge everything by that standard. If is it not possible to know the rightly divide the Scriptures, why does God command us to do it?
And, in fact, it is a very loving thing to mark and avoid false teachers. To do so is to love those who are in danger of being deceived by the false teachers. To pretend that the false teachers are not teaching error and to associate with them as if nothing were wrong is an unloving act toward those who will be deceived by their error. To separate from those who are teaching error is also an act of love toward the sound churches, because in marking and avoiding those who err, we protect the churches from their corrupting ministries.
True Christian love separates from false and sinful things.
In conclusion, judging and separating from sin and error is not contrary to Christian love. True Christian love is not a mushy tolerance of things that are wrong. Such an idea is a false definition of Christian love.
The loving apostle John taught us the true definition of love:
"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous" (1 John 5:3).
| 2005/2/4 9:37|
| Re: We are commanded to judge!|
You must have spent hours on this post. I agree overall. The thing that has to be defined here is what are the errors and sins that warrant strong attention? To give you an idea what I mean, growing up in an Oberlin Theology type setting I have heard it preached that if you wrecked your car at 56 miles per hour in a 55 zone you may be in danger of hell-fire because you were breaking man's laws. Lots of outward things that suggested 'holiness.'
Yet, when I went to the Institute I took 5 semesters of the 613 Laws of the Old Testament (that had to be grace!). Their view of holiness was way wildly different than ours in the Holiness circles. We thought when boys swam in jeans at the summer camp it was holiness, but none of that was in the 613 laws. We thought that when a sister poured a cup of hot water and added sugar and creamer it was holiness because she didn't drink coffee. And if your smoking, your going to have to go to hell to get a light! I know I am sounding sarcastic, but this, unfortunitely is reality. People lives in fear for the most trivial of matters. Many just backslid all together. Of a whole generation of preachers in one certain circle- all backslid but one and when you asked them why they said, "I just couldn't live it." So what sins are we talking about when we say discipline? Damnable sins such as adultery, fornication, idolatry, etc.
And as for doctrine we can take a similar line. What do we divide over? Certainly we can agree on the essentials and have fellowship. But what about when someone wants to split over pretrib or post trib? See what I mean?
Robert Wurtz II
| 2005/2/4 10:00||Profile|
Specifically I was addressing the qualification of leadership in the church. It's funny you should mention speeding because one person on here told me I couldnt judge whether a nationally know "leader" in the church could still be in leadership because of sexual sin... because after all, I've probably broken the speed limit at some point.
I have Christian friends who struggle with sin... and I struggle with my own sin nature too. We all do. But when it comes to Church leadership, Paul is very precise as to what qualifies (or disqualifies) someone... and that is what this post was concerned with.
If someone in our private lives is sinning habitually, not repentent, and claims to be a Christian... then we can judge for ourselves where they stand... but not in a way that we feel we can condemn them, but rather to bring correction to their life and turn them in the right direction.
As far as doctrine, I dont think there is a line that can be drawn clearly. There are some fuzzy areas in the Bible, but I believe it's not all that hard to recognize a false teaching IF we are true students of the Bible. I'm not going to seperate from someone over "Did Adam have a belly button" type of arguments. However, if someone teaches that the Holy Spirit can make a person fall to the floor and bark like a dog (violating one the fruits of the Spirit - self control), then I will seperate from that teacher. It's not in scripture, therfore by definition, it's unscriptural (God's not giving new revelation today) and misrepresents what and who teh Holy Spirit is. It's misrepresents God's character.
I think in matters of seperation each individual has to seek God about it. One needs to ask themself "how close to the edge of the cliff do I want to go?"
| 2005/2/4 10:13|
Something to think about:
"Did I ever tell you my little parable of the first two denominations? Two fellows were sitting on a park bench feeding the pigeons. One looks around and then declares with great expressiveness, What a beautiful day it is and how wonderful it is to be able to see it! The other man responded, Oh, sir, I most heartily agree. You know, I used to be blind. The other man exclaimed, You dont mean it! I used to be blind, too. He went on, I will never forget the day Jesus healed me.
The other man said, What? Jesus healed you? Why that is wonderful because Jesus healed me, too. They rejoiced together in their mutual blessings. The first man said, Yeah, I will never forget that day He spit upon the ground and made mud. He put the mud on my eyes and told me to go wash at the pool. I washed and immediately I could see clearly.
Hearing this with great suspicion, the other man said, Mud? What mud? When Jesus healed me He just touched my eyes and I could see, but men appeared to me like walking trees. Then Jesus touched me again and suddenly I could see clearly, but there was no mud. I dont know what you are talking about. Are you sure you can even see at all? You must not know the Jesus I know. How could you see after such a disgusting experience? I dont believe you know what you are talking about.
With that, both men moved to the opposite ends of the bench and never spoke to each other again. That was the beginning of denominationalism: The Mudites and the Anti-Mudites."
I am not all for "unity" at any cost, but getting to know many hungry believers who are honestly searching to become more Christlike- I have come across people who have had many different experiences. The Lord has taught them in different ways. I think it is best to focus on Christ and becoming like Him- then to focus on the many other things "about" Christianity.
If we focus on Christ and becoming less of ourselves and more of Him, things will automatically fall into place. Preach Christ and him crucified and things will come as they should. Everything else that is "about' christianity will not mean anything until the body is cross- centered and Christ -centered first.
We can have the church all structured just so but if the people and the leadership are not dying to self and becoming Christlike at all expenses- then the rest will not matter. The cup has to be clean on the inside. What does it matter how it looks on the oustside until the inside is washed clean. then the outside will become clean.
Just my 2 cents. :)
In Him, Chanin
| 2005/2/4 10:28||Profile|
Phoenix, Arizona USA
| Re: We are commanded to judge!|
We all have to make numerous judgments every day, but when it comes to judging others it would be wise for us to consider the following words penned by a godly woman, Amy Charmichael;
[i]If I belittle those whom I am called to serve, talk of their weak points in contrast perhaps with what I think of as my strong points; if I adopt a superior attitude, forgetting "Who made thee to differ? And what hast thou that thou hast not received?" then I know nothing of Calvary love.
If I have not compassion on my fellow-servant even as my Lord had pity on me, then I know nothing of Calvary love.
If I can easily discuss the shortcomings and the sins of any; if I can speak in a casual way even of a child's misdoings, then I know nothing of Calvary love.[/i]
| 2005/2/4 10:32||Profile|
I am not all for "unity" at any cost, but getting to now many hungry believers who are honestly searching to become more Christlike- I have come across people who have had many different experiences. The Lord has taught them in different ways. I think it is best to focus on Christ and becoming like Him- then to focus on the many other things "about" Christianity.
While I agree with your underlying message here... I also know that the Bible commands us to discern, weigh and contend for truth. We cant dismiss the Bible and focus on experiences.
| 2005/2/4 10:35|
If I belittle those whom I am called to serve, talk of their weak points in contrast perhaps with what I think of as my strong points; if I adopt a superior attitude, forgetting "Who made thee to differ? And what hast thou that thou hast not received?" then I know nothing of Calvary love.
I'm not talking about belittling or feeling superior. If we have that attitude then we are sinning by judging. We're not weighing and discerning for the right spiritual reasons.
Let's also remember that the words of Amy C., or any other person, do not supercede what scripture teaches. Amy was not saying we shouldnt obey scripture in this manner... but that we should have the mind of Christ about it.
| 2005/2/4 10:39|
I am sorry, I did not mean "experiences" as you might think (charasmatic experiences) I am talking more about God's dealings with people.
here is an excellent bit from Chip brogden that kinds of makes my point:
"At some point we have to stop dissecting the nutritional value of the food before us, analyzing the menu, studying it under a microscope, and exchanging recipes. The Body needs tangible meat, bread, water, milk and honey. Strive towards actually feeding people instead of just talking about the food and drink. People are starving. GIVE them the Life first, then analyze it all you wish.
I used to murmur and complain that "no one" wanted to hear my message. That may be true if we are bringing a message other than Christ. But if we speak Christ then everyone wants to hear it, whether they realize it or not. People are dying for the Word of Life which you carry. It is true that everyone will not listen, but anyone might, and somebody will."
In His love, chanin
| 2005/2/4 10:42||Profile|
and I struggle with my own sin nature too
What is a sin nature?
Robert Wurtz II
| 2005/2/4 11:03||Profile|
What is a sin nature?
You're not going to nit-pick, are you? :-P I'll make it more spiritual for ya... like everyone else, I struggle with my flesh.
(I suspect you knew what I meant)
| 2005/2/4 11:07|