SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Promoting Authentic Biblical Christianity.
Looking for free sermon messages?
Sermon Podcast | Audio | Video

Discussion Forum : General Topics : Can we lose our salvation? Re-visited

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( 1 | 2 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Can we lose our salvation? Re-visited

When I was a young believer I used to hear the words 'once saved always saved' and I always felt a strong need to resists the saying. This was 30 years ago. I know now that my discernment was right but my understanding was wrong.

In Hebrews we are told that 'you are saved with an everlasting salvation'. There are many other singular instances which makes salvation a certainty to the one who is truly born again from on high. 'The gifts and the calling of God are without repentance' for example.

I believe that the difficulty in understanding the Scripture on this subject arises from a flawed understanding of what salvation really is. In the first place salvation is the Lord Himself. He is our salvation because He is our Saviour. Salvation is not many parts, but Christ himself.

We on the other hand are many parts. i.e. spirit, soul and body. When we first believed we were born again of the Spirit of God, so that we are thereafter called a new creature. However, it is the spirit which is born of the Spirit. The soul is another matter. The soul is not said to be born again. Rather we are called to be renewed in our minds, deny ourselves and love one another. These three attend to the salvation of the soul. 'He who has lost his life (soul) for My sake,', says the Lord, 'will find it'. This I believe is the salvation of the soul. It is a progression of denying oneself, allowing the Word of God to richly indwell us and loving the brethren, as Christ loved us. Lastly the body is saved in an instant. i.e. when Christ returns.

Salvation is broader in its effect and journey than is repentance which issues in eternal life and may take only a moment. Salvation must include the whole man, spirit, soul and body.

There are countless passages of Scripture which simply do not make any sense, even to the believing mind if we see salvation as simply being born again. To be born again is the result of God's election and calling as well as a reasonable response from the sinner. It has to do with our once dead spirits, which are made alive to God in Christ Jesus so that we who once cursed God now cry Abba, Father.

The real question should be will we be counted worthy of The Lord at his coming. This is what is at risk. If you are truly born again you will not perish, but have already passed out of judgement in grace and eternally belong to God. You have been purchased by the blood of God's own Son and are a precious possession of God; from Who's hand none can remove you.

However, we should not imagine that we can live to please ourselves. Either have your best life now, and suffer loss at the coming of The Lord Jesus, or deny yourself and follow after Him daily, looking for those wonderful words, 'well done my good and faithful servant'. The alternate which is to spent a thousand years in hell is appalling. Any one who thinks that a 1000 years of shame and suffering in the soul is a trivial thing, has no understanding of the reality of the coming kingdom of our God and Christ, at which time we will know what we truly are in Him. Amen.

 2012/4/11 11:29









 Re: Can we lose our salvation? Re-visited

You said:

"The alternate which is to spent a thousand years in hell is appalling. Any one who thinks that a 1000 years of shame and suffering in the soul is a trivial thing, has no understanding of the reality of the coming kingdom of our God and Christ, at which time we will know what we truly are in Him. Amen."

Are you suggesting that hell is not eternal but only for 1000 years? I'm assuming you are saying while Christ is reigning for 1000 years unworthy believers are in hell. and if so, what happens after those 1000 years? Do those unworthy believers still go to heaven or the lake of fire?

Some people reference the scripture "suffer loss" to mean suffer loss in regards to rewards. Others think it means loss of salvation, as you might be implying here. Just curious.

 2012/4/11 13:50
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Quote:
Are you suggesting that hell is not eternal but only for 1000 years? I'm assuming you are saying while Christ is reigning for 1000 years unworthy believers are in hell. and if so, what happens after those 1000 years? Do those unworthy believers still go to heaven or the lake of fire?



I am not sure about the poster, but this is what modern day universalists teach. That while there is punishment for sin/not beleiving, after the 1000 year period, the Lord will reconcile all things to himself, including all unbeleivers, which would include the Beast and Satan.






_________________
Christiaan

 2012/4/11 14:11Profile









 Re:

Can you say: Rob Bell?

Hell is eternal. Jesus said so. I'll trust Him. I think He would know.

Krispy

 2012/4/11 14:35









 Re: Your question about the eternity of hell!

Most of my original post was to do with what salvation means. In that context you are right to say that I was suggesting that 'unworthy' believers may spend 1000 years in hell. As for hell itself it is important to know that its dominion over men's souls is concluded at the judgement seat of Christ after the 1000 year kingdom. Hell itself is cast into the lake of fire, however the souls of men, both male and female, are released from Hell to face judgement. Whether these souls then go into the lake of fire (which is in the new heavens and the new earth) is a matter of whether their names are written in the Book of life. Please read Revelations.

I do understand why many believers feel strongly about the suggestion that in the end every soul of man is reconciled to Christ and that no one actually faces the lake of fire. I utterly reject that view. It cannot be supported in scripture whatsoever. Please understand me I believe that it is a lie to condemn every one who falls away from their faith in Christ to eternal judgement. i.e. the lake of fire. I think that this is a lie against the truth of the finished work of the Cross. If Hell can be said to be eternal, then it is only eternal in the sense that Hell itself will be eternally in the lake of fire. As for the souls of men, surly this is a matter for God Himself, without who's election and calling no one could believe.

As far as I am able to understand this difficult subject of salvation, its benefit, meaning and effects I refer to my original post. We are called to preach Christ Jesus crucified for sin. The measure of the Father's love for the world of men. If anyone hears that truth and believes they are saved already. They have eternal life already; albeit in an earthen vessel. Even today we still see darkly as through a glass, and we hardly comprehend what the Church is. let alone the Fulness of Christ or issues of eternal life.

We have the Scriptures, but in every age men twist the Scriptures to their own destruction. I make a judgment in the hope that having learned from the Spirit, I can share that which is learned. All in a determination to defend the finished work of Christ. I do not and will not condemn any man to eternal destruction. I know that if I preach Christ today and a man rejects Christ today then today he remains dead to God and certain to hell and thereafter the lake of fire. But what can I say of tomorrow. Only God Himself knows what tomorrow will bring for that man.

Forgive me for seeming to press this point. I have seen many men fall away from their faith and this issue of eternal life has been at the root of it. Anyone who is truly born again will not be able to sin easily, especially when they first believe. In time their choosing to take up their cross and follow after Christ, or not, will determine whether they will be found in the kingdom or not. Not everything that comes from the flesh is sinful, however the whole of the flesh is unprofitable to God.

As for Rob Bell. I utterly reject his teachings and methodologies in Christ name.

 2012/4/11 15:48









 Re: Im not sure about the poster and my response to the one who calls himself Miccah

Hello dear brother

I am glad that you began by saying 'I am note sure about the poster'. You could have been more emphatic given that you then assign to me an apostate spirit of universalism. I would like to thank you for your restraint.

Please brother do you really think that anyone who is truly born of the Spirit of God can actually believe that in the end even the beast of Revelations and that wicked one, Satan will be 'saved' from the lake of fire.

In all the Scriptures their are few who's end is already spoken about. They are Satan, the false prophet of Revelations, and the beast of Revelations. These things are stated so clearly that only a spirit of delusion could induce anyone to believe contrary to the Scriptures. When I enter into warfare through prayer I often remind that wicked one, Satan that he is already judged and his end is spoken off. This he fears most of all because he is thus reminded, contrary to his madness, that he is already condemned with no possibility of reprieve. He always flees from these words, and I always rejoice. Even so it is written' God takes no delight in the destruction of the creature'. I rejoice not in his destruction, but because he has no intention of letting up when it comes to his attacks. A moments deliverance for me and effectual prayer for many is a cause of rejoicing.

Your reference to 'universalism' is it seems to me is a philosophical way of saying apostasy. This is what the apostle Paul was given to understand at a time when even Peter, and the other apostles did not understand it. Paul warned against it in many of his letters and even named a few men who had begun to enter into it. I could name a few men today who have become apostate. But for the sake of this forum and its limitations I cannot. Even so apostasy is not a philosophy or a belief, it is a falling away from the apostles' teachings, as they were deliver by Christ Himself; including to Paul. Apostasy must come, it will come, it has come.

I have no doubt that you yourself are not of that spirit of apostasy from reading your many posts. Neither is this man. May the Lord bless us both with greater wisdom. Amen

 2012/4/11 16:56
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

One always has free choice to "depart from the Living God".

1Jn 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

Jesus says punishment is everlasting and He is contrasting it with "life eternal", which is the context needed in order to understand that punishment is also eternal.

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

There is nothing in the next verse that implies this person will someday be forgiven.

1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Once again we see a clue here about eternal life. Eternal life is Jesus Christ and eternal life is NOT abiding in the one that hateth his brother. Who abides in us? Jesus or Satan and we abide in one of them.

Besides, if you understand Salvation you will understand that salvation must take place while one is in the physical body. There is no repentance, salvation, or deliverance from any "body of death" (physical body) after physical death because the physical body is no more.

Pilgrim

 2012/4/11 18:40Profile









 Re:

I thought I'd add some knowledge to this thread. Hell is not eternal.

If we remember it says, Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

The second death is this lake of fire which probably burns for ever and ever.

Death and Hell in other words are to be burned up and become no more.

We should adjust our speech when referring to hell as being eternal and use the lake of fire instead.

 2012/4/11 22:23
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

Punishment is eternal. Alienated from God is eternal.

No such thing as annihilationism.

 2012/4/12 1:12Profile









 Re: Eternal punishment

Separation from God does have an eternal aspect. Scripturally though eternal separation and punishment are not synonymous in their meaning. I cant understand how it is that one who has received eternal life today, would persist in driving all sinfulness and sinning of men to the lake of fire.

As far as I know the greatest sin is unbelief. Persistent unbelief no doubt will lead a man to the lake of fire. It is the only sin for which there is no remedy because it attends to a mans free will. Even God Himself will not compel a man to believe in His Son crucified for sin. Despite this God has saved millions upon millions of souls from punishment and the second death through Christ.

There are many parables and passages of Scripture which clearly demonstrate that even to the one who is a servant of the Master (saints) there still remains a possibility of punishment because of their present post conversion conduct. These punishments have to do with putting Christ to an open shame and causing men to stumble despite knowing the truth that Christ died for us. These punishments range from imprisonment, nakedness, shame, being cast out of the kingdom, being forbidden entry to the kingdom and even being consigned to a place with the unbeliever during the kingdom.

There is no such thing as one punishment which equates to separation from God. Even today it is written that 'the whole world is in Satan' it is also written that 'in Him (God) we live and have our being'. Eternal separation is eluded to in Genesis where it is written' Let Us now cast man from the Garden, lest he should eat of the tree of Life and live forever'. This 'living forever' in a state of sin, without a ransom paid for sin, is eternal separation, and today only applies to those who have rejected that ransom given. Why do some of us who believe still not understand that sin has been purchased by the blood of the Lamb of God.

In Hebrews Paul writes' now let us press on from immature things such as eternal life' etc. How could eternal life be a thing for little children to understand and yet it escapes full grown men. It is childish to continually argue about this matter. It is settled. It is finished. How can you not know it. Salvation however is broader in its application and effects, than eternal life because it speaks of a man's spirit, soul and body. Eternal life presently though speaks of our spirit which were once dead to God and are now made alive in Christ to the Father of lights.

I believe that you are right when you say there is no such thing as annihilation. I don't see it being spoken of here or in any of the posts. When Approved spoke about death and hell being burned up in the lake of fire he isn't speaking about people. He is speaking about dominions. When hell and death are cast into the lake of fire they are 'empty'.

Those who are in death and hell after the kingdom will stand before the judgement seat of Christ. All we can say on this matter is what is written on the matter. 'And those names who were not written in the Book of Life were cast in the lake of fire, which is the second death.

 2012/4/12 4:17





©2002-2019 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy