Colin, just out of interest, do you see the three stages that Fox taught ie three blessings rather than two?What do you mean? I am not familar with the three stages that Fox taught can you explain them to me?
Well, a lot depends on how you interpret his `coming up through the flaming sword`. Some insist it was when he was `saved` and others say it was when he was baptised in the Spirit as a `second blessing`. I believe the later, as he had gone though that `dark night of the soul` thing that many describe before they came to the end of themselves and saw that they were living the Christian life in their own stength and became desperate and like Fox sought for help on how to stop sinning but found none (well that is, during a time of dryness in the church when this doctrine is not taught.)So if like me you consider that he was baptised with the HS at that point, we read that he came up to the state of Adam in his innocency then God showed him a higher state where there would be no sin at all."But I was immediately taken up in spirit to see into *another or more steadfast state than Adam's innocency* even into a state in Christ Jesus that should never fall. And the Lord showed me that such as were faithful to Him, in the power and light of Christ, should come up into that state in which Adam was before he fell; in which the admirable works of the creation, and the virtues thereof, may be known, through the openings of that divine Word of wisdom and power by which they were made"This idea of three stages has been known before though in the holiness movement two stages were mostly experienced. It has been traditionally known as the `triplex via` for obvious reasons and has been taught at times through church history but not very often. The third stage of union with Christ, is what is described by Fox of sharing in the same nature as Him ie holiness or entire sanctification whereas the second stage is sanctification or illumination. Man being as he is however, will mostly deny any further stage and think he has achieved the most he can. It is generally when he meets another who is much further on than he that he will open his mind.This happened with Fox as people were amazed at his discernment to know what was in a mans soul. He could read them immediately just as Christ had done and was never beaten in a debate. Many at the time recognised he had outstanding spiritual qualities.Brenda
Jimmy"Compare what he taught to what the holy apostles and prophets of our faith taught. Compare his actions to theirs. Think critically."Well I do find that the early Quakers including Fox acted like the apostles in that they provided for themselves rather than accept tithes and payments from their fellowships. Fox was a cobbler and kept himself this way. Most if not all ministers of the gospel today do not follow this example and take where they should be giving freely. Do you preach for nothing?And another thing, they did not call themselves King-something, refusing to accept even legitimate titles saying all men were equal nor would they say something that was not strictly true which is why they would not go to plays or the theatre. Honesty was very important to them, so there was not a King Paul nor a King George. And this is the group of people that you wish to disparage.You sound very young on the sermons on your site. I think it would serve you well to think before you speak and be a little more humble.Brenda
Sorry for the delayed reply.If you look at the Corinthians you could say this.1. Born Again2. Filled with Spirit as the they had the gifts of the Spirit.3. But Paul in 1 Cor 12:31 tells them that there is a more excellent way.Then in 1 Cor 13 he basically goes on to talk about you character or you could say a nature which is full of love.But I can also see that what George Fox is saying could be misunderstood or misinterpreted by those who haven't been dealt with God in this way and haven't studied it at the depth with an open mind..."even into a state in Christ Jesus that should never fall" Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever 1 Peter 1:23.Can the incorruptible seed ever fall?
ColinMy understanding of the state IN Jesus Christ that can never fall is that, it is in this state that one can never fall which I cannot see it mean anything else but sinlessness, that is, falling to temptation while in this state, but it is possible to leave this state as evidenced by Peter after Pentecost but he was restored through Paul showing him his sin. This is being born again ie in the state where one does not sin which I do not see to be the same as when first comes to Christ, which most say is saved, but in my understanding and that of Fox`s, it is only in the third stage, which you have put as `the more excellent way` that man is saved from his sin in actuality and not merely positionally. Other than that, you are not getting into the kingdom.