| Poster | Thread |
| | Message by Art Katz, Please Listen | | I am not one to promote a favorite preacher or teacher. I listen to few sermons as I am drawn more to listen to the scriptures. This is no reflection on the quality of good teaching found on this site. This is the way God has wired me.
Yesterday I was drawn to listen to a message by Art Katz entitled The Invisible Cloud of Witnesses. I know Art Katz is one of the featured speakers on this website and his messages are well recieved. This particular message is taken out of Hebrews 12:1. He speaks of those witnesses who have been persecuted in times past and its message for us today. His challenge is we live in light of eternity.
As I listened to this message I got the impression that Brother Art does not hold to a pretrib rapture. He believes that one can very well be martyred in this day . And this in the west. He is challenging believers to live in light of eternity.
Saints, persecution is not some Tim LaHaye fantasy with a Hollywood ending of a pretrib rapture. But it is a brutal and unpleasant reality beingi lived out today. A VOM magazine or Open Doors newketters will take you to shipping containers in Eritrea or death camps of N. Korea. Foxes Book of Martyrs and Martyrs Mirror will carry you back to saints who died for Christ in times past. This is The Invisible Cloud if Witnesses.
I was amazed a westerner such as Art Katz would speak on martyrdom. Indeed this is a topic that the western Christian does not want to hear. For that matter this is a topic that Sermon Index does not want to hear. It is far easier to debate contro and have correct doctrine then follow Christ, even to death.
Even though this is Art Katz, many of you SI will be offended and turned off. But for you small remnant there is a blessing waiting for you. The message is audible. It was given in France so there is a French interpretor to listen to. It is found in the Art Katz Apostolic Foundation Thread. It is entitled The Invisible Cloud of Witnesses.
I know many will be offended by the message. But for you few with the courage of Christ, this will be a rich blessing for you.
Bearmaster standing down. |
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 2012/4/9 9:34 | |
hmmhmm
Member
Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4994
Sweden
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| 2012/4/9 9:55 | Profile |
hmmhmm
Member
Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4994
Sweden
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| 2012/4/9 10:25 | Profile |
hmmhmm
Member
Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4994
Sweden
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| 2012/4/9 10:33 | Profile |
| | Re: | | I srand corrected. Evidently this brother has a message of martyrdom to our age. I look forward to hearing mire of him. Thank you for sharing these links. |
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| 2012/4/9 11:15 | |
ET101
Member
Joined: 2010/10/26
Posts: 240
| | Re: | | I'm currently about a third of the way through Art's book 'Apostolic Foundations.' How can I put this? If I had one last post to make on SI before I died, it would be:
Please, whatever you do, read this book!! |
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| 2012/4/9 12:32 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Thank you, Brother Christian.
Also know what you mean, ET101. We're blessed and grateful to have found Art here on SI years back. Wouldn't have found him otherwise. Very Grateful! One reaches a point in their walk that if they can't find anyone that is going "deeper still", they can get discouraged, lonely and can lead to a sort of spiritual depression. 'Glory to GOD' for what Brother Art left for us. It's such a gift for the serious-minded last days Saints that want to press in further and further, without the limit that others may put on this walk, or race. Amen!, Saints of the Most High and Holy GOD our Saviour. He is worthy of all Praise and Glory.
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| 2012/4/9 13:15 | |
| | Re: | | I have listened to the message by Art Katz on Martyrdom. It was the English to Arabic one. Totally incredible, moving, sobering, and convicting. What caught my attention was the brother believes he will be martyred, even by his own people. So what fo we know about him. I know he is Jewish. Is he from Israel? Is he Canadian or American? Is he still living? |
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| 2012/4/9 14:34 | |
| | Re: | |
Here you go, Bearmaster ...
http://artkatzministries.org/about-art-katz/
Call me 'conspiratorial', but I do believe he was martyred - but I could be wrong of course - I just know that inflicting diseases is possible and has been done for hundreds of yrs.
Thanks for your thoughts for him.
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| 2012/4/9 14:43 | |
staff
Member
Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 2227
| | Re: Message by Art Katz, Please Listen | | Hi Bearmaster,
I havent listened to the sermon yet but will.
The comment below in my opinion is incorrect.
Whether or not the west want an easy way out with a pretrib rapture has no bearing on whether it is pre trib or post trib.The logic that alot of people use -just because the west want a pretrib rapture must mean that God will do the opposite is not a proper exegesis of the subject.Also their are many Post trib western believers(seemingly the only believers willing to give all) who are chomping at the bit for tribulation but that does mean that they will or will not see tribulation.
It has to be scriptural.On this subject their are 2 main views and both sides put up strong scriptural arguments.
I lean away from a post trib view because of this scripture
Luke 17:26-30:
"And as it was in the days of Noe, (Noah) so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed."
As for Martyrdom,it is folly to become a martyr if that is not what God has for your life.If Art Katz goes and preaches in Tehran without the Lords say so then this is folly.The disciples counted themselves blessed to suffer and so should we but we should go as directed.
Also may I add that the suggestion that the offended(the ones that dont agree with a particular point of view whether it is Art Katz or my view)are somehow without the courage of Christ is just name calling in my opinion.Lets be fair their are not two classes of Christians in this world only one.
(Saints, persecution is not some Tim LaHaye fantasy with a Hollywood ending of a pretrib rapture. But it is a brutal and unpleasant reality beingi lived out today. A VOM magazine or Open Doors newketters will take you to shipping containers in Eritrea or death camps of N. Korea. Foxes Book of Martyrs and Martyrs Mirror will carry you back to saints who died for Christ in times past. This is The Invisible Cloud if Witnesses.)
Yours Staff |
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| 2012/4/9 18:06 | Profile |
