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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : God bless our Constitution? uhhh Probably not. Jefferson's own Bible and Earthly Jesus.

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 Re: Rbanks

Here. Here. Was going to post but brother or sister you saved me the trouble. Very well put.

 2012/4/9 14:38









 Chivalry, the Renaissance, Jefferson thought, and religious duty.

"The Jefferson Bible, or "The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth" as it is formally titled, was a book constructed by Thomas Jefferson in the latter years of his life by cutting and pasting numerous sections from various Bibles as extractions of the doctrine of Jesus.

"Jefferson's composition excluded sections of the New Testament containing supernatural aspects as well as perceived misinterpretations he believed had been added by the Four Evangelists."...Wiki

This is more of a thesis than a book, as Jefferson believed that Jesus was a great moral philosopher; but certainly not the Son of God. He extracted every moral idea from all of the parables, and catalogued them; this was the book...not a Bible by any means.In the Christian sense, Jefferson was a moral unbeliever. [ circa 1820]

Much of this thinking was cultivated in the Renaissance, coupled with the More's of Chivalry...
[knightly virtues, honour and courtly love, and less the martial aspects of the tradition]..wiki On these principles, much of this moral and honorable thinking was born into our Constitution.


This created the vein of American Chivalry, and it's Martial ideas about the real man, and dueling.

"The most notorious American duel was the Burr-Hamilton duel, in which notable Federalist and former Secretary of the Treasury Alexander Hamilton was fatally wounded by his political rival, the sitting Vice President of the United States Aaron Burr.

Another American politician, Andrew Jackson, later to serve as a General Officer in the U.S. Army and to become the seventh president, fought two duels, though some legends claim he fought many more.

On May 30, 1806, he killed prominent duellist Charles Dickinson, suffering himself from a chest wound which caused him a lifetime of pain. Jackson also reportedly engaged in a bloodless duel with a lawyer and in 1803 came very near duelling with John Sevier."...wiki

This Chivalry was embedded in the founding Fathers moral code, united with Deism...a concept that God exists, and there is a right and wrong. Rush Limbaugh of radio fame, would parallel these founders in thought, with his oft references to God. This is not to say that many were not Christian...many were. Later, Robert E. Lee, a profound Christian believer, was equally baptized in the spirit of Chivalry, which is the honor code that one must die for. He chose Virginia has his honor.

Let us also remember that in England, the Church was a co-partner in power with the Monarchy, to wield power over the masses to raise armies. It was considered a religious duty to serve your country. This carried over into the colonies, and as Mother England was steeped in religious tradition, as was her monarchy...[ you know, God and king...] so were the colonies.

I read every Constitution of the 13 colonies, and all have the name of God, in an allegiance way, embedded within them. One even declares the Lord Jesus Christ as the only Name to be worshipped, with religious freedom only under that Name.

I held in my hand a WW2 Army Issue Bible. I have seen in Documentaries entire ship singing hymns....thousands of soldiers worshipping, in many venues of war.

Are we a Christian Nation? Certainly, fading fast, but leaning in Culture and idealism YES....and we were founded with the idealistic classical ideas of social equality and freedom, with much of it compatible to the Bible, but not necessarily living a holy life and a born again Christian mentality.

All men are not created equal. "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated!"....before either one were born. In American constitutionality, there is no sin. We have the right to do as we please, as long as it does not break the law. [ based on the big ten of Moses ].

The best thing in America is that we have the right to worship freely, and speak freely; but it is your choice...you may sin freely too.



 2012/4/9 14:59









 Re: Chivalry, the Renaissance, Jefferson thought, and religious duty.

"The Jefferson Bible, or "The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth" as it is formally titled, was a book constructed by Thomas Jefferson in the latter years of his life by cutting and pasting numerous sections from various Bibles as extractions of the doctrine of Jesus.

"Jefferson's composition excluded sections of the New Testament containing supernatural aspects as well as perceived misinterpretations he believed had been added by the Four Evangelists."...Wiki

This is more of a thesis than a book, as Jefferson believed that Jesus was a great moral philosopher; but certainly not the Son of God. He extracted every moral idea from all of the parables, and catalogued them; this was the book...not a Bible by any means.In the Christian sense, Jefferson was a moral unbeliever. [ circa 1820]

Much of this thinking was cultivated in the Renaissance, coupled with the More's of Chivalry...
[knightly virtues, honour and courtly love, and less the martial aspects of the tradition]..wiki On these principles, much of this moral and honorable thinking was born into our Constitution.


This created the vein of American Chivalry, and it's Martial ideas about the real man, and dueling.

"The most notorious American duel was the Burr-Hamilton duel, in which notable Federalist and former Secretary of the Treasury Alexander Hamilton was fatally wounded by his political rival, the sitting Vice President of the United States Aaron Burr.

Another American politician, Andrew Jackson, later to serve as a General Officer in the U.S. Army and to become the seventh president, fought two duels, though some legends claim he fought many more.

On May 30, 1806, he killed prominent duellist Charles Dickinson, suffering himself from a chest wound which caused him a lifetime of pain. Jackson also reportedly engaged in a bloodless duel with a lawyer and in 1803 came very near duelling with John Sevier."...wiki

This Chivalry was embedded in the founding Fathers moral code, united with Deism...a concept that God exists, and there is a right and wrong. Rush Limbaugh of radio fame, would parallel these founders in thought, with his oft references to God. This is not to say that many were not Christian...many were. Later, Robert E. Lee, a profound Christian believer, was equally baptized in the spirit of Chivalry, which is the honor code that one must die for. He chose Virginia as his honor.

Let us also remember that in England, the Church was a co-partner in power with the Monarchy, to wield power over the masses to raise armies. It was considered a religious duty to serve your country. This carried over into the colonies, and as Mother England was steeped in religious tradition, as was her monarchy...[ you know, God and king...] so were the colonies.

I read every Constitution of the 13 colonies, and all have the name of God, in an allegiance way, embedded within them. One even declares the Lord Jesus Christ as the only Name to be worshipped, with religious freedom only under that Name.

I held in my hand a WW2 Army Issue Bible. I have seen in Documentaries entire ship singing hymns....thousands of soldiers worshipping, in many venues of war.

Are we a Christian Nation? Certainly, fading fast, but leaning in Culture and idealism YES....and we were founded with the idealistic classical ideas of social equality and freedom, with much of it compatible to the Bible, but not necessarily living a holy life and a born again Christian mentality.

All men are not created equal. "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated!"....before either one were born. In American constitutionality, there is no sin. We have the right to do as we please, as long as it does not break the law. [ based on the big ten of Moses ].

The best thing in America is that we have the right to worship freely, and speak freely; but it is your choice...you may sin freely too.



 2012/4/9 14:59
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

Quote;"Article 11 in the treaty with the Barbary States that was made by our founding fathers states that 'America is not a Christian nation in no sense of the word'. This treaty was passed by a unanimous vote by the Senate. It was printed in major newspapers. There was no dissenting voices raised as to the language of the treaty."


The atheist web pages muddy and obscure the truth
That part of the treaty was later rejected.

"As for the Treaty, I'm always happy to repost the facts.
The phrase in question does not appear in the Arabic version
The phrase was understood to mean that the US did not have officially
hostile relations with nations which were officially Muslim.
The treaty was renegotiated a few years later. The phrase was indisputably
NOT a part of the subsequent treaty."
http://vftonline.org/EndTheWall/tripoli.htm



For more reading;
John Adams
"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were. . . . the general principles of Christianity. . . . I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God; and that those principles of liberty are as unalterable as human nature."

Would a secular nation put "In God we trust" proudly on it's money?

 2012/4/15 1:01Profile
hulsey
Moderator



Joined: 2006/7/5
Posts: 640
Missouri

 Re:

The re-negotiated treaty that was made eight years after the original one did not have article 11 in it. This is probably where the websites you are looking at are getting their sources.

Whether it was in the Arabic treaty or not has no bearing on the matter. The English version certainly did have it; was read aloud in the Senate from start to finish (the whole treaty took up one page of paper) including article 11 without argument from any senator. The English version which included article 11 was passed unanimously and printed in major newspapers.

My source is not an atheist, it's John Fea a Christian history Professor. The book is, was America Founded as a Christian Nation? It's a very fair and honest look at American history. He takes on liberal and conservative revisionists.


_________________
SI Moderator - Jeremy Hulsey

 2012/4/15 2:16Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

Quote "Whether it was in the Arabic treaty or not has no bearing on the matter. The English version certainly did have it; was read aloud in the Senate from start to finish (the whole treaty took up one page of paper) including article 11 without argument from any senator. The English version which included article 11 was passed unanimously and printed in major newspapers."

Why did you not mention it was later removed?

Our christian founded nation was not set up as a "christian theocracy",so TECHNICALLY all the christian founders could say "We are not a "Christian" nation"

Noah webster's dictionary (Used in all public schools)

Had God,and the bible all over it.
walk

WALK, v.i. [G., to full, to felt hats; a fuller; to stir, to be agitated, to rove, to travel, to wander, to roll. Our ancestors appropriated the verb to moving on the feet, and the word is peculiarly expressive of that rolling or wagging motion which marks the walk of clownish people.]

1. To move slowly on the feet; to step slowly along; to advance by steps moderately repeated; as animals. Walking in men differs from running only in the rapidity and length of the steps; but in quadrupeds, the motion or order of the feet is sometimes changed.
At the end of twelve months, he walked in the palace of the kingdom of Babylon. Daniel 4.

Look at the interwoven christianity of Madison,church,and Government;
"Madison's Christian influence is understandable in light of his upbringing and education. He was raised in a strong Episcopalian home where both parents were active in the church. He went to the College of New Jersey (now Princeton) which was then a very orthodox, conservative Christian school. The president of the college was the Rev. John Witherspoon (one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence) who recognized in Madison a bright and attentive pupil. We know a great deal of Witherspoon's beliefs-- the influence that he had during this time was tremendous. "Witherspoon was president of the College of New Jersey from 1768 to 1794. In those twenty six years 478 young men graduated--about eighteen students per year. Of those478 graduates, 114 became ministers; 13 were state governors; 3 were Supreme Court judges; 20 were United States Senators; 33 were U.S. Congressmen; Aaron Burr Jr. became Vice President; and James Madison became President."
http://www.lawandliberty.org/founders.htm

 2012/4/15 2:41Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

MAYFLOWER COMPACT

In the name of God, Amen. We whose names are underwritten, the loyal subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord King James, by the Grace of God of Great Britain, France, and Ireland King, Defender of the Faith, etc.

Having undertaken for the Glory of God and advancement of the Christian Faith and Honour of our King and Country, a Voyage to plant the First Colony in the Northern Parts of Virginia, do by these presents solemnly and mutually in the presence of God and one of another, Covenant and Combine ourselves together in a Civil Body Politic, for our better ordering and preservation and furtherance of the ends aforesaid; and by virtue hereof to enact, constitute and frame such just and equal Laws, Ordinances, Acts, Constitutions and Offices from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the general good of the Colony, unto which we promise all due submission and obedience. In witness whereof we have hereunder subscribed our names at Cape Cod, the 11th of November, in the year of the reign of our Sovereign Lord King James, of England, France and Ireland the eighteenth, and of Scotland the fifty-fourth. Anno Domini 1620.

 2012/4/15 2:45Profile





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