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SimpleLiving
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Joined: 2008/1/11
Posts: 375
Minnesota, USA

 Questions and Discussions regarding the End Times

Another thread got me thinking about the pre and post-tribulation rapture theories. Through my own studies, I lean quite heavily towards a pre-tribulation rapture. Naturally, since God has not seen fit to clear up this mystery, with certainty, for us, this leaves room for thoughtful and sincere discussions for those on both sides. Also for those who are undecided, new to the faith or just curious.

Let me emphatically state that this is NOT meant to be a debate thread. If it turns into one, I hope the moderators will promptly lock this thread. I'm starting this thread because I have SINCERE questions for post-tribulation rapture believers that I don't understand. I'd like this thread to be a place for sincere, loving, God-honoring, truth seeking discussions for ANYONE who has ANY sincere questions about the last days, the rapture, the end times, the tribulation period, etc., NO attacks. Let's respect each other's opinions as we would like our own opinions respected. I'm not talking about being politically correct when I say that. I'm talking about being Christ-like.

I'll start with my questions in the next post...


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Keith

 2012/4/3 22:38Profile
SimpleLiving
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Joined: 2008/1/11
Posts: 375
Minnesota, USA

 Re: Questions and Discussions regarding the End Times

Here are some questions for those who lean towards a post-tribulation rapture.

1. If you believe we will be going through the tribulation period, are you personally doing anything to prepare for that time? Meaning, are you storing food, water, and other provisions? Do you have a different location you'll be heading to? If not, why not? I would think it would be wise to store food, water, medications, etc., Granted, my trust is in the Lord alone but it would seem to be wisdom to prepare at some level.

2. What is the point, or purpose, of being raptured with Christ (in the clouds) at the end of the tribulation period only to immediately return with Him for His Second Coming (physically on the Mount of Olives)? I don't understand what the purpose of the up and down would be.

3. A) The Bible is our instruction book for life. There are teachings and instructions throughout the Bible for God's people. Yet, I don't see any in the book of Revelation. What is the belief of post-tribbers for why God doesn't lay out His plan (or instructions) for believers during the most difficult and horrific time in history?

B) What are your thoughts on the Book of Enoch? I know many claim it to be fake or not really written by Enoch. Many claim it has nuggets of truth but are skeptical of it altogether. However, it does seem to have instructions for those living during the time of the tribulation period. This, to me, would give more credence to the post-tribulation theory. It would also answer part A of this question as to why there aren't any instructions for Christians in the Bible for living through the tribulation period.


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Keith

 2012/4/3 22:38Profile
TrueWitness
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Joined: 2006/8/10
Posts: 522


 Re:

SimpleLiving asked:

2. What is the point, or purpose, of being raptured with Christ (in the clouds) at the end of the tribulation period only to immediately return with Him for His Second Coming (physically on the Mount of Olives)? I don't understand what the purpose of the up and down would be.

ANSWER: It might have something to do with the fact that the Lord will destroy his enemies fighting against him here on Earth by a "Sword" proceeding out of His mouth. So it might be wise for Christians alive at the moment of the Lord's coming to be behind the Lord (literally and physically) when the destruction of the ungodly occurs. After the wicked are slaughtered, then it will presumably be safe to come back down to the Earth with the Lord.

 2012/4/3 23:33Profile
savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2010


 Re: what time it is?


Quest. 1. "If you believe we will be going through the tribulation period, are you personally doing anything to prepare for that time?"

Those who were about to go through the 'tribulation period' as you put it above,were told precisely what to do to prepare for that time. Read Jesus' words for yourself:

Matthew 24:15-25 When therefore ye shall see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoever readeth, let him understand,) Then let them who are in Judea flee to the mountains: Let him who is on the house-top not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him who is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe to them that are with child, and to them that nurse infants in those days! But pray ye that your flight may not be in the winter, neither on the sabbath: For then shall be great tribulation, such as hath not been since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there would no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For false Christs will arise, and false prophets, and will show great signs and wonders; so that, if it were possible, they would deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before.

1. Flee to the mountains
2. Pray
3. Do not believe reports about false Christs

Those who were His heeded His Word and escaped from the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD. They believed Jesus' Prophetic Word when He told them before. Read again:

Luke 21:20-24 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that its desolation is nigh. Then let them who are in Judea flee to the mountains; and let them who are in the midst of it depart from it; and let not them that are in the countries enter into it. For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe to them that are with child, and to them that nurse infants in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles shall be fulfilled.

Jerusalem's desolation came with Rome's armies in 70AD just as Jesus prophesied.

The historians such as Eusebius,Josephus,Schaaf and others make it abundantly clear as to the historicity of this prophecy being fulfilled to the minutest descriptive detail.

Quest. 2. "There are teachings and instructions throughout the Bible for God's people. Yet, I don't see any in the book of Revelation."

Rev. 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia; to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.

Rev. 2:1,5 To the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; Remember therefore from whence thou hast fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come to thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of its place, except thou repent.

Rev 2:8,10 And to the angel of the church in Smyrna, write; These things saith the first and the last, who was dead, and is alive; Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer. Behold, the devil will cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days. Be thou faithful to death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

You may read for yourself further instructions given in Chapters 2 and 3.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth firm, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Rev. 9:3,4 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and to them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men who have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

Rev. 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Peoples foreheads in Revelation are sign-ificant!

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev. 7:14 And I said to him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they who came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Indeed the book of Revelation is prophetic!

Thanks be to God that He is Faithful, and comforted His people in the first century through John the apostle by...

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, to show to his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel to his servant John: Who bore testimony of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. Rev. 1:1-3

These things would shortly come to pass and the time was at hand for the Great Tribulation and desolation/destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.

Reconsider what you've been taught and bear in mind the context of all of the above. What time is it? It's certainly not time to debate! It's time to get busy about our Father's business. It's time to get on our knees before God and pray for His Spirit to teach us His Word,and that we enter not into temptation.

Rev. 22:6,7,16 And he said to me, These sayings are faithful and true. And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to show to his servants the things which must shortly be done. Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. I Jesus have sent my angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning-star.

The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. Rev 22:21

 2012/4/4 1:14Profile
Sidewalk
Member



Joined: 2011/11/11
Posts: 706
San Diego

 Re:

For me, the nature of "the rapture" has a lot to do with how I see end time issues. Jesus told the disciples to pray that God's will should be done on the earth as it is in heaven. He told them to pray for it, but we don't want to do that. We want to pray other stuff.
Paul said the hope of glory was Christ in you. Does it matter where we are geographically for that?
Jesus said He would prepare a place so that where He is, we would be also. Does that mean we will live in the same heavenly neighborhood, or does it mean we will be glorified saints who are in the exact image of our savior- living in what He demonstrated in His transfiguration?

Romans 8 suggests that the earth itself will be delivered from it's bondage to decay into the glorious liberty of the children of God. Psalm 149 says His faithful ones get to be those who get it done.

Somehow, floating off into space seems to violate the reasonableness of the gospel of salvation and restoration. There is nothing in the prophetic stream to suggest this.

Christianity is personal relationship with the Eternal God, and salvation is a Person, not a system of doctrines. Rapture is the explosive melding of our person with Jesus Christ Himself, our mortality dissolving into a body of glory, the very image of the Son of God.

Going up, going down- what does it matter? My heart longs to see the corruption in the world destroyed, the will of God be done on earth as it is in heaven.

That's my hope for the end times.


_________________
Tom Cameron

 2012/4/4 1:20Profile









 Re: Questions and Discussions regarding the End Times


Hi SimpleLiving. I have these quotes from some of the ECFs and wondered if any of these would answer any of your questions.

Blessings!


Justin Martyr (A.D. 110-165)

"Two advents of Christ have been announced: the one, in which He is set forth as suffering, inglorious, dishonored, and crucified; but the other, in which He shall come from heaven with glory, when the man of apostasy, who speaks strange things against the Most High, shall venture to do unlawful deeds on the earth against us the Christians, ... Now it is evident that no one can terrify or subdue us who have believed in Jesus over all the world. For it is plain that, though beheaded, and crucified, and thrown to wild beasts, and chains, and fire, and all other kinds of torture, we do not give up our confession; but the more such things happen, the more do others and in larger numbers become faithful, and worshippers of God through the name of Jesus." [Dialog with Trypho, CX]


Irenaeus: Discipled by Polycarp who was discipled by John. (AD. 120-202)

"Moreover, another danger, by no means trifling, shall overtake those who falsely presume that they know the name of Antichrist. For if these men assume one [number], when this [Antichrist] shall come having another, they will be easily led away by him, as supposing him not to be the expected one, who must be guarded against. These men, therefore, ought to learn [what really is the state of the case], and go back to the true number of the name, that they be not reckoned among false prophets. But, knowing the sure number declared by Scripture, that is, six hundred sixty and six, let them await, in the first place, the division of the kingdom into ten; then, in the next place, when these kings are reigning, and beginning to set their affairs in order, and advance their kingdom, [let them learn] to acknowledge that he who shall come claiming the kingdom for himself, and shall terrify those men of whom we have been speaking, having a name containing the aforesaid number, is truly the abomination of desolation. ... It is therefore more certain, and less hazardous, to await the fulfillment of the prophecy, than to be making surmises, and casting about for any names that may present themselves, inasmuch as many names can be found possessing the number mentioned; and the same question will, after all, remain unsolved. ... But he indicates the number of the name now, that when this "man" comes we may avoid him, being aware who he is: ... But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this "man" and those who follow "him" into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance, in which kingdom the Lord declared, that many coming from the east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob." [Irenaeus: Against Heresies, Book V, XXX]

" an apostate and a robber, is anxious to be adored as God; and that, although a mere slave, he wishes himself to be proclaimed as a king. For he being endued with all the power of the devil, shall come, not as a righteous king, nor a legitimate king in subjection to God, but an impious, unjust, and lawless 'one'; as an apostate, iniquitous, and murderous, as a robber, concentrating in himself satanic apostasy, and seeking aside idols to persuade that he himself is God raising up himself as the only idol, having in himself the multifarious errors of the other idols. This he does, in order that they who do worship the devil by means of many abominations, may serve himself by this one idol, of whom the apostle thus speaks in the second Epistle to the Thessalonians."

"And there is therefore in this beast, when he ( Antichrist ) comes, a recapitulation made of all sorts of iniquity and of every deceit, in order that all apostate power, flowing into and being shut up in him, may be sent into the furnace of fire...since he sums up in his own person all the commixture of wickedness which took place previous to the deluge, due to the apostasy of the angels."

"In a still clearer light has John, in the Apocalypse, indicated to the Lord’s disciples what shall happen in the last times, and concerning the ten kings who shall then arise...These have one mind, and give their strength and power to the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them, because He is the Lord of lords, and King of kings...And they (Ten Kings) shall lay Babylon waste, and burn her with fire, and shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the church to flight. After that they shall be destroyed by the coming of our Lord.” [Against Heresies V, XXVI, 1]

"But he indicates the number of the name now, that when this man comes we may avoid him, being aware of who he is:...But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple in Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance, in which kingdom the Lord declared, that “many coming from the east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.” [Against Heresies V, XXX, 2, 4]

"For all these and other words were unquestionably spoken in reference to the resurrection of the just, which takes place after the coming of the Antichrist, and the destruction of nations under his rule; in (the times of) which (resurrection) the righteous shall reign on the earth...and those whom the Lord shall find in the flesh, awaiting Him from heaven, and who have suffered tribulation, as well as escaped the hands of the Wicked 'one' (Antichrist)." [Against Heresies V, XXXV, 1]


Hippolytus: Bishop of Portus, was a disciple of Irenaeus who was discipled by Polycarp who was discipled from John.(AD. 170-236)

"As these things, then, are in the future, and as the ten toes of the image are equivalent to (so many) democracies, and the ten horns of the fourth beast are distributed over ten kingdoms, let us look at the subject a little more closely, and consider these matters as in the clear light of a personal survey. The golden head of the image and the lioness denoted the Babylonians; the shoulders and arms of silver, and the bear, represented the Persians and Medes; the belly and thighs of brass, and the leopard, meant the Greeks, who held the sovereignty from Alexander’s time; the legs of iron, and the beast dreadful and terrible, expressed the Romans, who hold the sovereignty at present; the toes of the feet which were part clay and part iron, and the ten horns, were emblems of the kingdoms that are yet to rise; the other little horn that grows up among them meant the Antichrist in their midst; the stone that smites the earth and brings judgment upon the world was Christ." [Treatise on Christ and Antichrist, 27,28]

It is proper that we take the Holy Scriptures themselves in hand, and find out from them what, and of what manner, the coming of Antichrist is; on what occasion and at what time that impious one shall be revealed; and whence and from what tribe (he shall come); and what his name is, which is indicated by the number in Scripture; and how he shall work error among the people, gathering them from the ends of the earth; and (how) he shall stir up tribulation and persecution against the saints; and how he shall glorify himself as God; and what his end shall be; and how the sudden appearing of the Lord shall be revealed from heaven; and what the conflagration of the whole world shall be; and what the glorious and heavenly kingdom of the saints is to be, when they reign together with Christ; and what the punishment of the wicked by fire...With respect to his name, it is not in our power to explain it exactly, as the blessed John understood it and was instructed about it, but only to give a conjectural account of it; for when he appears, the blessed one will show us what we seek to know... Wherefore we ought neither to give it out as if this were certainly his name, nor again ignore the fact that he may not otherwise be designated. But having the mystery of God in our heart, we ought in fear to keep faithfully what has been told us by blessed prophets, in order that when those things come to pass, we may be prepared for them, and not be deceived. For when the times advance, he too, of whom these things are said, will be manifest...Now concerning the tribulation of the persecution which is to fall upon the Church from the adversary, John also speaks thus, "And I saw a great and wondrous sign in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, ... And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent”...That refers to the one thousand two hundred and threescore days (the half of the week) during which the tyrant is to reign and persecute the Church.... These things then, being come to pass, beloved, and the one week being divided into two parts, and the abomination of desolation being manifested then, and the two prophets and forerunners of the Lord having finished their course, and the whole world finally approaching the consummation, what remains but the coming of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ from heaven, for whom we have looked in hope." [Treatise on Christ and Antichrist, 5, 50, 60, 61, 64]

"on account of his tyranny and violence. For the deceiver seeks to liken himself in all things to the Son of God. Christ is a lion, so Antichrist is also a lion; Christ is a king, so Antichrist is also a king. The Savior was manifested as a lamb; so he too in like manner, will appear as a lamb, though within he is a wolf. The Savior came into the world in the circumcision, and he will come in the same manner. The Lord sent apostles among all the nations, and he in like manner will send false apostles. The Savior gathered together the sheep that were scattered abroad, and he in like manner will bring together a people that is scattered abroad. The Lord gave a seal to those who believed on Him; and he will give one in like manner. The Savior appeared in the form of man, and he too will come in the form of a man. The Savior raised up and showed His holy flesh like a temple, and he will raise a temple of stone in Jerusalem."

"He ( Antichrist )will be harsh, severe, passionate, wrathful, terrible, inconstant, dread, morose, hateful, abominable, savage, vengeful, iniquitous. And, bent on casting the whole race of men into the pit of perdition, he will multiply false signs."

“When the times are fulfilled, and the ten horns spring from the beast in the last (times), then Antichrist will appear among them. When he makes war against the saints, and persecutes them, then may we expect the manifestation of the Lord from heaven. [Fragments from Commentaries, II, 7]

"shall be sent through every city and country to destroy the faithful; and the saints shall travel from the west to the east, and shall be driven in persecution from the east to the south, while others shall conceal themselves in the mountains and caves; and the abomination shall war against them everywhere, and shall cut them off by the sea and by land by his decree, and shall endeavor by every means to destroy them out of the world; and they shall not be able any longer to sell their own property, nor to buy from strangers, unless one keeps and carries with him the name of the beast, or bears its mark upon his forehead. For then they shall all be driven out from place to place, and dragged from their own homes and haled into prison, and punished with all manner of punishment, and cast out from the whole world." These shall awake to everlasting life."


Tertullian (c. 160 - 225)

“...that the city of fornication may receive from the ten kings its deserved doom, and that the beast Antichrist, with his false prophet may wage war on the Church of God...Since, then, the Scriptures both indicate the stages of the last times, and concentrate on the harvest of the Christian hope in the very end of the world ...Now the privilege of this favor (the resurrection) awaits those who shall at the coming of the Lord be found in the flesh, and who shall, owing to the oppressions of the time of Antichrist, deserve by an instantaneous death, which is accomplished by a sudden change, to become qualified to join the rising saints...” [On the Resurrection of the Flesh, XXV, 7 and XLI]

Lactantius (260-330)

"He ( Antichrist ) shall harass the word with an intolerable rule; shall mingle things divine and human; shall contrive things impious to relate, and detestable; shall meditate new designs in his breast, that he may establish the government for himself; he will change the laws, and appoint his own; he ( Antichrist )will contaminate, plunder, spoil, and put to death."

 2012/4/4 2:19
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

Quote:
this is NOT meant to be a debate thread



But, when you put forth two conflicting “sides” for discussion you will indeed have debate! Of course debate can be fruitful.

Quote:
both sides



Speaking of “both” sides, Jesus himself at times was presented with the “dilemma” of two irreconcilable sides. For example once someone said to him:

“Jesus, who sinned, the blind man OR his parents? Jesus we offer you only these two options – two boxes. Tick one!”

Jesus, as we know, did not play the rules - not according to their devised categories.

The popular pre/post trib debate has two categories which cannot be reconciled. You can’t ever have Christians agree ….. at least as long as all agree that there is a future tribulation period. In the other thread some of us offered the possibility that the tribulation imageries in Revelation could be viewed as a composite portrait of all the horrendous suffering among God’s people throughout the ages. However, that suggestion did not “win”. So, we will have to settle with two opposing sides. And the best we can do is to agree to disagree. Meanwhile the Bible becomes a chess board full of pawns to strategically maneuver in our game.

Perhaps it’s time to push the “Pause” button. Why not simply reflect on what is happening in the ongoing eschatological focus? I offer some observations:

1) The protagonist in this futurist drama we are trying to script typically becomes the beloved Number or Event. And jesus christ becomes marginalized as a mere marker of time.

2) Our eschatological focus tends to be de-humanizing. People, as in the beloved "cloud of witnesses" with whom we are united become marginalized, or are designated as objects - categories – something like our statistics graphs. And the sacred elements are now the symbolisms.

3) The purpose for this literature is lost, along with any thoughts about the author, divine inspirer, or recipients.

4) Small obscure details stay in the spotlight, while the bigger stronger points drift into the shadows.



What happens if we put the first three chapters of Revelation back into the debate? We find out who the letter was intended for: the seven churches. And we find out what was going on with them. Ex: “You have lost your first love.” … etc….

So, for starts, if our eschatological interpretations fail to point God’s people back to their “First Love” – it’s time to get off this treadmill and reflect on a more pressing concern immersed beneath our preoccupation with our two most popular designated categories. ...

..... lest the devil becomes the ultimate winner.

The question: How would Revelation have encouraged the Seven Churches to persevere in the faith?

Diane



_________________
Diane

 2012/4/4 7:15Profile









 Re: Questions and Discussions regarding the End Times

Quote:
Let me emphatically state that this is NOT meant to be a debate thread. If it turns into one, I hope the moderators will promptly lock this thread.



lol.... this is like saying "Mitt Romney or Barrak Obama? Discuss!"

It's going to be a debate, there is no way around it. But debates dont have to be fights. I've learned the most and grown the most by debating the Word of God. The key is that we all have to be teachable.

On some things I am rock solid, but on most things I am open to other ideas. I think we all have to be willing to learn from one other and at least attempt to see things thru someone else's eyes. Doesnt mean we have to end up agreeing with them... but dialogue is GOOD.

Krispy

PS: I vote for Mustangs, guitar solos, the white sandy beaches of Oahu, Hawaii (was just there a couple months ago!) sound teaching, the love of my woman... and a pre-trib rapture. (but if it's post-trib I am cool with that too)

 2012/4/4 7:41
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3396
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Questions and Discussions regarding the End Times


You'll get no debate from me, brother!! And these answers are not all inclusive.

Quote:
SimpleLiving asked:
1. If you believe we will be going through the tribulation period, are you personally doing anything to prepare for that time? Meaning, are you storing food, water, and other provisions?


No and no. I do not believe we are to be prepared physically more than we are spiritually. So what if we have a forest of food and water if we turn on our Christian brothers and sisters.

Quote:
SimpleLiving asked:
1b. Do you have a different location you'll be heading to? If not, why not? I would think it would be wise to store food, water, medications, etc., Granted, my trust is in the Lord alone but it would seem to be wisdom to prepare at some level.


Another location? I guess there are some who have another location but I do not and I feel I must ask... If all the Christians go to another location, who will be left to minister to those who can’t leave and who will need ministering too? I do believe in asking God to stop the sun and moon so we can win the battle!! (huge friendly grin)

If the Holy Spirit instructs me to leave then I will leave. I understand Jesus’ instruction in Matt 24 was specifically for the Jews during the time of Titus’ invasion of Jerusalem. Titus attacked the city and withdrew for a little time (a God thing); allowing the Jews who believed what Christ spoke to flee to the mountains and then when Titus attacked again and overrun the city, those who stayed were murdered and the city leveled.

I’d like to add one more thing, Jesus said to not to return to get anything but to flee with what was on their back and they did. I believe that that same faith would be required of us as well. If some people have the ability and means to prepare that is awesome and I hope they have a heart to share with those who didn’t.

Quote:
SimpleLiving asked:
2. What is the point, or purpose, of being raptured with Christ (in the clouds) at the end of the tribulation period only to immediately return with Him for His Second Coming (physically on the Mount of Olives)? I don't understand what the purpose of the up and down would be.


The purpose I see (in my limited human ability) is that we come back victorious ready to rule and reign 1000 years! Please know that I’m not going to pretend to understand it all either, my friend; but I do follow Rev 20 very closely. I believe in being resurrected more than I do ‘raptured.’

Quote:
SimpleLiving asked:
3. A) The Bible is our instruction book for life. There are teachings and instructions throughout the Bible for God's people. Yet, I don't see any in the book of Revelation. What is the belief of post-tribbers for why God doesn't lay out His plan (or instructions) for believers during the most difficult and horrific time in history?


I see many warnings (thus instructions) throughout the book of Revelation!

Quote:
SimpleLiving asked:

B) What are your thoughts on the Book of Enoch? I know many claim it to be fake or not really written by Enoch.


I have never read it so I cannot say.


Personally, I think you are leaving out some questions (in my humble opinion!), I think you should also be asking why we don’t believe in the pre-trib rapture of the church. You will get lots of good answers but this is your thread so I won't add anymore!!

God bless you for the good dialogue!!
Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2012/4/4 9:13Profile









 Re:

SimpleLiving asked:

Quote:
Here are some questions for those who lean towards a post-tribulation rapture.



The only thing he asked is for those who lean towards post-trib to reply.

So who's stirring it up?

Only those who did not honor his request.

Seems simple enough to see how this is gone off already.


Sorry that we can't ask questions to a specific group without the thread being thrown already by those that can't honor the person's simple questions from the stand-point that he requested.

I don't believe he nor those who would honor his request have lost their first love - but I think it would be more loving to just stick to his question and from those that he requested opinions from.

I prefer men of GOD from the past to answer men for me, where possible.

Peace and hope there's no condemnation for the one that asked the question.


GOD Bless!

 2012/4/4 9:46





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