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lindi1208
Member



Joined: 2011/3/8
Posts: 162


 Re: Praise God for giving dreams

Hi Sree

"Thus the Holy Spirit reveals to believers the mind of God. God does not need to speak to a true believer in dreams anymore if the believer is mature enough to hear the Spirit. But many Christians today are not still babies who still drink Milk and cannot take solid meat. So God has to still speak to them in dreams. "

Sree to question a believers maturity based on one method God chooses to speak to that person is unwise. God is sovereign He chooses how He wills to speak to His Children. What we are supporting in this thread is an often neglected area in the body of believers. We are not saying our dreams take precedence over the Holy Spirit's leading and speaking to us in our hearts we are merely highlighting that God will sometimes speak to the believer irregardless of their maturity through a dream.

I consider sister Ginnyrose to be a mature believer not a babe in Christ yet look at her example of how God has used a dream to reveal to her areas in need of sanctification. Again Bearmaster has pointed out that many Muslims are coming to the faith through dreams and visions and these would be new believers. So whatever stage of our growth God has much grace to appreciate each of His children individually and will speak to them whatever way He deems fit.

A question I would lovingly ask was Peter an immature believer when he had the vision whilst on the rooftop. Was Paul an immature believer when he dreamt the man from Macedonia calling him to come to them?

Please don't get me wrong here we are not promoting being led by our dreams we are just simply saying God can sometimes use dreams to guide
us too. Primarily we hear directly from God through His Written Word and He ministers to us by His Spirit and we are led by His Spirit to will and to do.

Love in Christ


_________________
Lindi

 2012/4/5 12:51Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1714


 Re:

Quote:

I consider sister Ginnyrose to be a mature believer not a babe in Christ yet look at her example of how God has used a dream to reveal to her areas in need of sanctification.



To consider someone as a mature believer or babe in Christ is in the eyes of God. God looks into our heart and he knows our true spiritual condition and also our measure of faith.

According to me there are times when people have to be shown in dream because they are unwilling to hear the voice in that area. Even a mature believer can turn deaf in one particular area of life. A babe in Jesus is deaf almost in all areas. But having a vision in Dream cannot be used as a way to Judge a person's spiritual maturity. I apologize if I sounded like that in my previous post. I stand corrected. It was not my intention at all. I did not know that my previous post can be interpreted that way, thanks for pointing it out.


When my wife conceived, I wanted a boy. It was a dream in which God showed me it is a Girl and God gave me a girl so that I will relay on his wisdom to bring her up for Jesus. I was so confident on my abilities to raise up a boy!!!


A person might be really mature but in some areas they might still be stubborn and unwilling to hear and obey the voice. The areas of Sanctification that Ginnyrose has shared is a very good example where a believer can ignore the voice of Spirit.

Quote:

A question I would lovingly ask was Peter an immature believer when he had the vision whilst on the rooftop. Was Paul an immature believer when he dreamt the man from Macedonia calling him to come to them?



I actually thought about the Vision of Peter before I made my original post. My version is this, Peter had so much Jewish tradition of not visiting a gentile's house in his heart that he had to be shown in a dream, not to call anything unclean which God as made clean. But after the dream it was the Holy Spirit that directly told him to follow the messengers. May be there was a similar thing with Paul too.

In short if a New Covenant believer has completely surrendered himself to Jesus, then God can reveal things directly though the Spirit. There is no need of Dream.


_________________
Sreeram

 2012/4/5 15:13Profile









 The two Josephs.


"And Joseph dreamed a dream, and he told it his brethren: and they hated him yet the more.

And he said unto them, Hear, I pray you, this dream which I have dreamed..."
................................

"And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, "Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him."................

Without the Sovereignty of Joseph the Patriarch's life, which was typified by DREAMS, there would have never been a nation of Israel, and without the obedience of Joseph, the husband of Mary, Jesus would not have survived. [ if it were possible, and we know it was not..].

Dreams and revelation spatter the scripture like a deluge; so much of the scripture it is overwhelming and the hard thing for Conservative, Reformed or Calvinistic Dispensationalists to accept as well as most of traditional Christianity. It has never been accepted in these circles, as well as the prophetic; which I might add was almost fundamental in the early church.

The Charismatic and Pentecostal streams do, but have lost their authenticity and validity bending these gifts into their identity. The real has vanished, for now. I understand why they are rejected; there is a famine in the land of prophetic truth. Seeking the Kingdom of God first is God's priority, not moving in His gifts.

To be honest, I don't blame them for rejecting all "prophetic " inspiration. With the advent of such ministries as TBN, Kim Clement, The Toronto "Blessing", The KC prophets and "The Elijah List", it is a minefield out there...and often times just goofy; ridiculous; money-grubbing liars, the most of them....[ Todd Bentley was a prophet....] lol.

In a while, we as the church, will begin to accept these revelatory giftings more and more, for it is prophesied that the Spirit would be poured out upon a Church with greater works than even the first at Pentecost. When the Spirit acts in His real and authentic power, revealing His will and graces through dreams.....there will be no doubt realization and acceptance among the body.

 2012/4/5 16:00
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1421


 Re:

Hi Sree,
When it comes to dreams I find their is always a but...
I believe God gives dreams but....is the usual

Your old men will dream dreams, and your young men will see visions. ... And prophesied have your sons and your daughters

Old men speaks of maturity or at the very least some old men are mature in Christ.
God speaks to us in the way he chooses,he is the great communicator.
It is the Holy Spirit that gives dreams.1 Cor is totally correct in what it says but that doesnt make it at odds with God speaking through dreams,
Could you back up your claims of Mature Christians not having dreams and immature Christians having dreams with Scripture?
Also even if it were correct which it isnt in my opinion their is nothing wrong with being immature every Christian goes through that phase,
Dreams from GOD are scriptural and anyone who doesnt except them are not helping themselves or the body,
Yours Staff

 2012/4/5 16:04Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1421


 Re:

Hi Ephah,
Whether Savannahs post was to deter or to beware I dont know but it wasnt to encourage.Which is what I want to.I want to encourage believers to take God Given dreams seriously and not to be ashamed of Christ in this regard.
What God gives let no man try and take away.
The arguement that just because people followed false dreams we should not observe genuine ones just in case is not logical,Its like saying "I will not follow Christ because Satan is real"!or I will not observe real dreams because false ones exist;same difference

Yours Staff

 2012/4/5 16:24Profile
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

God given dreams should not be seen as God's "baby-talk" to His children.

God gives dreams to warn, expose and guide.

How can anyone lable this type of communication from God as "communication to the immature"?

Where in scripture does it state that dreams and visions are for the immature?

Pilgrim

 2012/4/5 16:31Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7471
Mississippi

 Re:

______________________________________________________________
QUOTE:
"The areas of Sanctification that Ginnyrose has shared is a very good example where a believer can ignore the voice of Spirit."
______________________________________________________________
Well...I am not sure I was totally aware of the sin lurking in the corners of my brain, but the Holy Spirit used a dream to reveal it to me. All I can say is "Thank-you! Lord!"

As I study the WORD it teaches me that one cannot confine God to a box. Putting Him there will limit Him. We are in the box and He is on the outside looking in and managing its contents - like me, like you, and everyone else including Barack Obama!


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2012/4/6 7:51Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1714


 Re:

Let me clarify what I am not trying to say.

1. I am not saying if a person has dreams from God then he is immature. He can even be mature but has ignored the voice of spirit in that area. If you see revelation, Jesus is asking the Churches that are held in his hand "let those who have ears listen to the voice of spirit." So it means irrespective of a position of a person in Christ he can turn deaf to Spirit and Jesus had to convict them by speaking through John.

2. I am not trying to restrict God in a box. Since I accept that God can speak to us in dreams, I am not trying to put any constraint. Holy Spirit living inside a person is possible only in New Covenant, and hence the Revelation that we get from him living inside us is completely new that was not possible before. I believe this is a preferred way, I accept that I cannot prove it by scripture but can only use circumstances like Peter's dream and Paul's revelation from Holy Spirit.

3. I am not saying dreams have to be looked down. All I am saying is revelation that a believer gets from Holy Spirit is much Higher Standard than dreams as it is a new Covenant standard. It is like saying PHD in Science is much higher standard than masters in Science. That does not mean Masters is a crap!

If anyone of you have a question in science and you get two different answers, one from a PHD scholar and another from a guy who did masters then which will you consider?


_________________
Sreeram

 2012/4/6 9:55Profile









 Re:

"3. I am not saying dreams have to be looked down. All I am saying is revelation that a believer gets from Holy Spirit is much Higher Standard than dreams as it is a new Covenant standard. It is like saying PHD in Science is much higher standard than masters in Science. That does not mean Masters is a crap!"

Hi Sree,

Actually, there's nothing biblical about what you said in the above paragraph. Let me ask you a question. If God speaks to a believer through a dream, how does He do it? Is it not the Holy Spirit of God speaking and communicating through the dream? If the dream is not communicated by God's Spirit they how is is communicated? You said that God speaking through the Holy Spirit is a New Covenant standard, which it is. But God has said that since the Holy Spirit has been poured out young and old will have dreams.


And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
(Act 2:17-18)

God does not equate one receiving dreams with immaturity. On the contrary, God equates believers having dreams to the specific New Covenant promise of the Holy Spirit being poured out. God, by the Holy Spirit, speaks through dreams. PTL.

__________________________________________________________

Here's a blog post I wrote concerning dream from the scriptures. It's titled "Maybe it was Bad Pizza"

http://preachingjesus.wordpress.com/2012/01/17/maybe-it-was-bad-pizza/

 2012/4/6 11:51
learjet
Member



Joined: 2010/4/19
Posts: 447


 Re:

Quote:
During the NIGHT Paul had a vision of a man of Macedonia standing and begging him, “Come over to Macedonia and help us.” After Paul had seen the vision, we got ready at once to leave for Macedonia, concluding that God had called us to preach the gospel to them. ~Acts 16:9



Here is an example of a dream/vision, it's New Covenant and I don't think anyone would call Paul a 'baby' in Christ during the time frame that it happened. At this time he had already been through Arabia where the Lord renewed his mind.

I've heard folks say that you can't teach from the book of Acts as being doctrine but I believe this is in error because then 2 Timothy 3:16 would read "SOME Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

Thanks for all of the testimonies!

 2012/4/6 11:58Profile





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