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Brother Lamb, Please read this that's below by Paul, in regards to what you posted that he also wrote [7:14 "but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin", etc] - that he wrote but not 'of' himself - but in chpt 7, he is explaining "living under the law" and using himself as the illustrator - as he should know, because he lived under the law, a Pharisee of the Pharisees, before Christ saved him and also said of himself, that when he was under The Law & unsaved as yet, "touching the righteousness which is in the Law, blameless" ...
Please read what he wrote before and after Romans chpt 7 and see if you still believe that Paul was "a slave to sin" or that we are ....
Sorry, but this is KJV - wish I could have done it in another version for you, but I did this before your post-
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death? Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death, we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him: knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that He died, He died unto sin once: but in that He liveth, He liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid! Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, If so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Romans 6 & 8
| 2012/4/4 23:33|
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I'll repost this from Wesley, in case you hadn't seen it and maybe you could discuss it with your Pastor, though I don't know what denomination you're in, he should know what Wesley is saying, if he is well read in the Pauline Epistles.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then - "This is a kind of a digression, to the beginning of the next chapter, wherein the apostle, in order to show in the most lively manner the weakness and inefficacy of the law, changes the person and speaks as of himself, concerning the misery of one under the law. This St. Paul frequently does, when he is not speaking of his own person, but only assuming another character. The character here assumed is that of a man, first ignorant of the law, then under it and sincerely, but ineffectually, striving to serve God. To have spoken this of himself, or any true believer, would have been foreign to the whole scope of his discourse; nay, utterly contrary thereto, as well as to what is expressly asserted, Rom_8:2. Is the law sin - Sinful in itself, or a promoter of sin. I had not known lust - That is, evil desire. I had not known it to be a sin; nay, perhaps I should not have known that any such desire was in me: it did not appear, till it was stirred up by the prohibition."
| 2012/4/4 23:47|
| Re: What is a Carnal Christian?|
Pastor Paul Washer says there is no such thing as a "Carnal Christian"; he says that passage in the Bible has been misused and misunderstood. He talked about this in one of
his earlier sermons which he gave in his 30's. I cant recall which one it was. It made sense at the time but i cannot recall it now. You might find the topic covered at illbehonest.com in one of their short video sermons.
| 2012/4/5 0:58||Profile|
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"Is there such a thing as a Carnal Christian?"
"Yes, in fact, there is no such thing as a Christian who is not at times carnal. Did you get that? And if you're saying to yourself, "I have never been carnal," then, "God have mercy on you."....John MacArthur
| 2012/4/5 2:21||Profile|
| 2012/4/5 5:32||Profile|
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paull washers definition of the carnal christan ,is of a person who profeses to be a christan and lives his life like the devil with no repentence ,or regenration ,,,,he calls them as not true christan
he says that a christian can not possably live a life style of sin and be a christan ,,so in that definition ,there is no carnal christan ,,but he does say that a christan can fall into sin and strugle with sins ,but will allways hate sin ,and want to be holy
the apostle johns says ,he who keeps on sinning is of the devil and has neither seen god ,nor has he known god ,he who is born of god keeps him self and the evil one does not touch him, he who is born of god does not keep sinning for gods seed is in him and he can not keep sinning , for he is born of god
i think when people use the term carnal christan ,there is more then one definition ,and which one is being used needs to be established , before any one can have a fruitfull chat ,,,,,,
| 2012/4/5 5:44||Profile|
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and paul washer would fully agree with john macarther,
| 2012/4/5 5:47||Profile|
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a carnal Christian is someone who has been born of the Spirit but is walking in the flesh.
| 2012/4/5 6:19||Profile|
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Both of them, Paul Washer and John MacArthur are being aggressed for 'Lordship Salvation'.
_But, whatever definition we have of being 'carnal', this is simply not commendable in any way, though we have to show them brotherly consideration and mercy.
| 2012/4/5 6:42||Profile|
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a question ,,,,can a person who profeses christ be carnal and live in sin all his life ,and still be a christan
| 2012/4/5 7:47||Profile|