I'm going to butt in here

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"Beware of any man who claims to be wiser than the apostles or holier than the martyrs of the Early Church." - A.W. Tozer

Discussion Forum : General Topics : I'm going to butt in here

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Sojourner40
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Joined: 2005/2/2
Posts: 1

I'm going to butt in here

Krispy,

Quote:

My issues w/ Max is that:

#1 he is an ordained minister of the Church of Christ denomination... which means that he believes that baptism is necessary for salvation. Clearly this is not the truth by scripture. This means he does not believe in salvation by faith alone... he adds works (baptism) to salvation.

I beg to differ (or something) regarding your statement. Ask a member of the Church of Christ "denomination" what they think about Max Lucado. Many of them have written him off as being just like one of those Baptists (isn't that sad?). The majority of churches of Christ (except for those "liberal" ones) don't even recognize him as a brother anymore. Why? there are a few reasons, but for example, HIS VIEWS OF BAPTISM ARE NOT THE TRADITIONAL CHURCH OF CHRIST VIEWS. Do a little googling and you'll see some of the fury that Max has caused some. I never knew that COC ordained preachers either, I'll have to look into that. Regarding the whole "fluffy" stuff... Max has reached many many souls with his efforts. I spent a many years living a very legalistic religious life. Max helped me realize that God's grace is sufficient. It was a starting point for me. I realize that it doesn't stop there. Anyhow, I just wanted to throw in my two cents ... :-)

2005/2/2 2:07

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crsschk
Member

Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

Max-ism's

Hi Sojourner40,

Will side up with you here

Quote:

Regarding the whole "fluffy" stuff... Max has reached many many souls with his efforts. I spent a many years living a very legalistic religious life. Max helped me realize that God's grace is sufficient. It was a starting point for me. I realize that it doesn't stop there.

Good point and you drew out something that has been lurking in the shadows for awhile. A recent post on the Bakker's son, Jamie and his ministry...something 'Revolution' that Neil posted similarly brought to mind something that we have not really discussed much here in my recollection;

Grace.

It's easy to get off balance and while realizing that many here would protest as I too would, that Grace has been slandered into compromise, easy-believism, couching a sinful lifestyle, pragmatism and so forth... The opposite is still true; Legalism, 'harshness', lack of love, extreme dogmatic stances on secondary issues...
Lack of grace.

Certainly Max is not Ravenhill, but neither is he spouting a false gospel.

Here's a couple one liners from Mr. Lucado;

[i]Never miss a chance to read a child a story.

Pursue forgiveness, not innocence.

Flattery is fancy dishonesty.

The right heart with the wrong creed is better than the right creed with the wrong heart.

We treat others as we perceive God is treating us.

Conflict is inevitable, but combat is optional.

You'll regret opening your mouth. You'll rarely regret keeping it shut.

To see sin without grace is despair. To see grace without sin is arrogance. To see them in tandem is conversion.[/i]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Baptism...

Good grief, the subject that I will never, ever fully understand what the deal is...There are other threads for sure and not to start another but of all the things to turn into an 'issue'.

Have yet to see a baptism that has not caused tears of joy to break the eye gates. Had the blessed privilege to see one in a public park of all places this past weekend. All the wrangling and controversy over something that is the greatest moment...

Have never watched the miracle of childbirth in person. But have watched the miracle of conversion and will go out on a limb and state that John the Baptist might have been a firebrand preacher of repentance, but I bet his heart was full of joy while he was dunking heads.

_________________
Mike Balog

2005/2/2 7:20

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Re: I'm going to butt in here

If Max has denounced the doctrine of baptism as part of salvation, then why does he choose to associate himself with a denomination who does? It's a heretical works based salvation.

I never said Max hasnt reached many many people. Please dont presume to put words in my mouth.

He does reach many, and I have no problem with that. Fluff is ok, and there is a place for it. But for people looking for deeper theological teachings... they are not going to find it in a Max Lucado book.

Those were my points, and I stand by them.

Krispy

2005/2/2 10:07