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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : The Denomination Is An Abomination ~Andy Zoppelt

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brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 2556


 Re:

, it makes no differnce to me weather a gods church is called churches in reigons,,and a church in a town or village ,it is irelevent to me and to the point i was making ,,,,iv allways believe that the body of christ the church is a universel church made up of every believe of different denominations ,and even the denomination ;non denomination ;; its beside the point i was making

iv personly never been a member ,of any denomination ,neither a member of a non denomination group ,,

im a member of the chruch of the first born registed in heaven ,,,the body of christ ,a member of the unity of spirit


i made my point ,in my first post ,about ,,the body of christ being called by different names ects or known by different names ,,the helenists ,,,the hebrews ects ,,and the name we have labled our self with christains ,,,which also is not the name jesus or the father gave us

i know there is neither jew nor greek slave nor free ,but all are one in jesus christ ,,,,,i still submit the prinicaple of extra names being applyed to the church is bibilical,,,,,and that corinithans chapters about some saying there were of paul or apolus,or peter ,and other who said there were of christ,,is taken out of contex when aplied to the agrument about denomination

the contex is clearly about thinking to highly in men ,and glorafing men and lowering christ down to the standared of the apostals ,,that is anbomination ,, giving men the glory that only belongs to gods son due to the carnal state of the church which also include of abominations like allowing fornacation to be excepted in the church ,,and denile of the resarection ,, its no wonder that some of these people glorfied the apostals ,,,like seen in the the book of acts ,,, when paul was concidered a god

the denomination issue is not the same issue being delt with by paul in the church at corinith so it is clearly taken out of contex when aplied to this issue of denomination


also brother jim i can safely say jesus did not die so you can call other parts of his bride an aboination ,becasue they dont fit in with your doctrine

i sinceraly dont agree with the artical ,and detect un called for anger ,,flesh ,,in it

but if any one could preach against denomination ,i surly could be one ,,,due to me never being amember ,,so im not being biast ,,,or this opinion is not rooted in how i was bought up

 2012/3/31 23:58Profile









 Re:

I'm trackin' with ya Brother Gary. :)

Actually, I don't see what good this is doing. These splits among Christians go back so far, it's all but impossible to change anything now.
We have Calvinists, or Reformed, or Anabaptists, or Pentecostals, or Cesstationists and they want to be with those that believe as they do. How can us cursing the whole lot of them help? I like Church hopping to all of them. I've met the most wonderful Saints on earth in every denomination and non-denominationals and house churches. It's wonderful to have your strict set of doctrinal beliefs checked or stretched and seen through the eyes of others and to meet truly Spirit filled believers in every fellowship you could go to. Of course we all have our limits, mine would be emergent or seeker-sensitive but I would hope our limits aren't based upon a 'name only' but on the soundness and sincerity of the leadership in each individual group. All groups of the same denomination are not the same. There's good and bad in each, depending on the leadership. And then there's people that don't believe in leadership. That's their choice as well.
His Saints are in each and every one of those divisions of His people but One Fine Day, we'll not care about these things and we'll be one.

I think it's like that saying - with regards to doctrine being the cause of why we have "denominations", is that, you can please some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time - so they split and split and split again - for now.

 2012/4/1 1:09
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 2556


 Re:

i know this doesnt sound verry good ,,,but

we also have the sect of the pharaisses and paul even after his conversion in acts ,,,say he is still a pharassie


i agree with you jeesus is god liberal denominations are a no no ,and those denominations are anobomination becasue of there doctrine


as the scripture says we should be of one mind in common understanding ,,,,,,and we are the crusafiction ,,the resarection ,,,,repentance ,,,saved by grace through faith
the virgin birth ,,the second coming ,,,,we all agree in the common things weather we are a denomination or a nondemoniation ,,there are certin beliefs tha tare held in common the devinity of christ ect

i dont think we can take the scripture to mean that we must agree on every single tenent of the faith

other wise even in nondemonational groups they would be scects differing in opinion and judment ,which would make them as guilty as the denomination regarding division

thats if we want to hold to anextremly strick view on being of one opinion and one judgment


1 Corinthians 1:10 amplified
But I urge and entreat you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you be in perfect harmony and full agreement in what you say, and that there be no dissensions or factions or divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in your common understanding and in your opinions and judgments. For it has been made clear to me, my brethren, by those of Chloe's household, that there are contentions and wrangling and factions among you.

 2012/4/1 3:32Profile









 Re:

JIG: "Actually, I don't see what good this is doing."

jim: You might not JIG because it is not something you have to deal with, and others might not because they are blinded by churchianities traditions, but Jesus is faithful to lead many out into the normal NT christian life.

JIG: "These splits among Christians go back so far, it's all but impossible to change anything now."

jim: Don't be discouraged JIG, I can tell you I know a ton of people that Jesus has delivered from it. We have been disobeying God for so long that we can’t possibly repent now is not true. There is still hope and God is for us.

Jeremiah 6:16 Thus says the LORD: "Stand by the roads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way is; and walk in it, and find rest for your souls. But they said, 'We will not walk in it.'

JIG: "We have Calvinists, or Reformed, or Anabaptists, or Pentecostals, or Cesstationists and they want to be with those that believe as they do."

jim: I fellowship with believers who’s belief could slightly fit into all of those descriptions. To excuse the denomination because that’s what people want is not OK. The Church in the NT is split only by geography (where they meet - at such and such house, in such and such city). We live in a generation where professing believers do what is right in their own eyes. We need to go back to the Lords and apostles instructions and pattern in the NT. To argue against that is to make ourselves super apostles - like those who argued with Paul in the first century.

JIG: "How can us cursing the whole lot of them help?"

jim: Cursing? I pray to God to see the elect restored to NT Christianity in every manner of life and practice, to walk in the council of God instead of the imaginations of their own hearts and the empty traditions passed down to them. Of course in the last days, to propose such a thing to church people would probably seem like a curse. False religious tradition is one of the most powerful forces on the face of the earth. Listening to excuses for denominations is a lot like listening to a JW defend the watch tower.

In Christ -Jim

 2012/4/1 9:33









 Re:

brothergary: "also brother jim i can safely say jesus did not die so you can call other parts of his bride an aboination"

jim:
I never called His bride an abomination - plase do not say such things about me. I called mans religous kingdom an abomination. I long to see the bride come out of it.

brothergary: " ,becasue they dont fit in with your doctrine "

Because they dont fit in with my doctrine? I actually wasnt alive in the first century and am not an apostle so it is not my doctrine. I didnt pray that the bride may be one as the Father and Son are one - that was my Lord Jesus.

-jim

 2012/4/1 10:04
learjet
Member



Joined: 2010/4/19
Posts: 447


 Re:

Quote:
also brother jim i can safely say jesus did not die so you can call other parts of his bride an aboination ,becasue they dont fit in with your doctrine

i sinceraly dont agree with the artical ,and detect un called for anger ,,flesh ,,in it



Hi Gary,

Does it bother you that you have partnered with the accuser of the brethren here and accused Jim of being an angry, fleshly person?

I meet with Jim (in person) as often as possible and to make these statements about him is well, laughable since he is none of these things. Frankly, I wish there were thousands more like him.

Either way he's in good company, they called Jesus the prince of demons.

 2012/4/1 12:01Profile









 Re:

Quote:
JIG: "We have Calvinists, or Reformed, or Anabaptists, or Pentecostals, or Cesstationists and they want to be with those that believe as they do."

jim: I fellowship with believers who’s belief could slightly fit into all of those descriptions.



Brother Jim, if we could all fit into your fellowship by moving to where you live, that would be wonderful, but of course we can't.
If we haven't learned here, on the forum, how those of differing views can't agree no-matter-what - how is it that we can't see that folks want to fellowship with others who's doctrines and side-issue beliefs they agree with?

Brother, back around 10 yrs after I was saved, in the mid 80's, my husband and I called "denominations, abominations" as well. We get grieved and the wall of partition that seperates us all, more than you know - but what can we do about it? - is my question.
I started with my first church being a black Methodist because the only Christian I knew took me to her there, to her Church and I loved it tremendously.
Then I went to Rock Church in Va. Beach, because that's where I lived and was saved. From there I moved overseas and then to several States, all of this while in the military - so it's been catch-as-catch can for me since I've been in the Church. Always moving and just when I think I'm where I'll be finally buried - Surprise, I move again. Trying to find a fellowship for me seems to be a life-long venture BUT GOD used every place I've fellowshipped in to teach me a vital lesson. I was so busy speaking against other denominations that I didn't realize the SAINTS were in them - so The LORD led me to attend where I never thought I'd step foot in.
I say this with repentent tears still - to this day - that the Saints are in all of these fellowships ["churches"] and beautiful Saints at that. I'm not talking about off-the-wall doctrinally churches, but your average everyday denominations. Conservative Reformed, AoG, Methodist, Baptist, Non-denominational, and so forth. The one group and their beliefs is the one I came down hardest on, from the time that I was first saved and for 30 yrs after, right up until attending their 'church'. As it turned out, that was what broke this old camel's back and shut her up almost completely on what this portion of His Body believe and that's been the more recent of my adventures... except that now that I've moved again - He has had to take me now to another place that I'd never thought I'd step foot in, IF I had looked at their website before saying yes to going with a lady that's offered to take me with her to her fellowship.
GOD is stretching me and I pray He will never stop - Now. I couldn't have said that back in 2005 ... being the doctrinal 'stickler' that I was for 30 yrs prior.
Live and learn.

I was "angry and in the flesh" over denominations for just over 30 yrs and I repent and am sure that He will lead, until I die, to open my eyes to many more of my faults in these areas. Being married to a "doctrinologist" didn't help, but I'm my own person now and can look back and again shed a tear for the way I was programmed.


Love & Peace to you and yours, Brother Jim.

 2012/4/1 12:27
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re:

Quote:
The institutional Church thinks in terms of corporate, impersonal, commercial, business, company, structural, organizational, etc..


Being a member of a mainline institutional church, I can validate this statement.

And yet.....

Jim, If you have been following the “Identity” thread, you’ll know what I mean when I say that denominations are mere illusions – figments of the imagination. It’s how the people try to define themselves. Those in the management are the ones designated to maintain the illusion. And others are expected to comply – including me, as music director. But there are plenty of ways to live in the reality instead of the illusion.

I have been observing an intriguing phenomena at the grass roots level in these mainline churches. Individuals may officially embrace their collective “identity” but they don’t necessarily do so in reality. A “liberal” church congregation may burst forth with evangelical hymns and preaching. These people go ahead and defy their denominational distinctions, or rather, simply recognize it for what it is: an illusion. And no one stops it because no one can.

The presence of authentic believers cannot be underestimated - those who serve in various capacities. Their impact is hard to appreciate from a distance. It’s like an “underground” church quietly and faithfully operating within the institutional church. These little flickers of light might be all many of the parishioners see of Christ; and they warm their hearts to it. I see it all the time.
Quote:
the Saints are in all of these fellowships



Praise God for them!

What makes me sadder is not so much the darkness in hearts in these churches, but how believers who “don’t agree” are so quick to go elsewhere and leave these congregations in the dark.

Diane


_________________
Diane

 2012/4/1 15:02Profile









 Re:

"What makes me sadder is not so much the darkness in hearts in these churches, but how believers who “don’t agree” are so quick to go elsewhere and leave these congregations in the dark."

I grieved over my IC for months on end sister Diane until the Lord led us out into NT relationships. At some point the reformers had to come out of Rome. After tasting the promised land it is my heart to call others out of their carnal camps into the same place. Though the campers, those who find their identity there surely will throw a fit at such talk, it has been that way since Christ walked the earth.

I have to agree with brother Len Ravenhill who said: “There are very, very, few occasions when God Almighty has revived dead denominations. The men who stirred their generations had to go outside the camp.” -

”Therefore let us go to him outside the camp and bear the reproach he endured” – Hebrews 13:13

There is no excuse needed for saints to heed the voice of God and abandon mans kingdoms and practices. It really seems it would take a special calling from God for a revived believer to stay in them though. That may be the case with you sister and I pray Jesus bless you in that end.

One week of walking in NT christianity would change a lot of peoples minds on this topic. I know many will be angered by that statement, but it is the truth.

In Christ -Jim

 2012/4/1 15:28
learjet
Member



Joined: 2010/4/19
Posts: 447


 Re:

Quote:
What makes me sadder is not so much the darkness in hearts in these churches, but how believers who “don’t agree” are so quick to go elsewhere and leave these congregations in the dark.



Hi Diane,

I can understand where you are coming from in this statement but folks who have been burned have ZERO desire to go down the same road again, so they just leave, silently (and some times silently doesn't even go over well). From there they are labeled 'church hoppers', 'rebellious', [insert name here], no worries.

This is a new day, the internet is enabling like minded brothers and sisters a means of connecting with each other and its a beautiful thing. When we get together we don't sit around railing against denominations, honestly there's not much time for that. Last time we got together we focused more on how to pass out tracts, asking for prayer for things, and getting to know other folks, it was great!! When I left I felt so energized! There are groups where their sole purpose in life is to rail against denominations and yammer on about how wonderful their doctrine is since they meet in small groups, but God forbid we ever become such a thing.

In nearly every sermon on this site by Len Ravenhill he mentions the same issues addressed in the article that Jim posted here. No one in their right mind would call Len 'angry and fleshly', however when another brother says the same thing he is labeled as such, go figure.

 2012/4/1 20:46Profile





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