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pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

Col 2:9 For IN HIM dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

 2012/3/27 13:58Profile









 Re:

HI Colin, the only thing we are disagreeing about is the fact that you may believe that somene cannot confess to belong to Christ unless thay have arrive at a cetain point or a certain stage, ie Romans 7. Do I agree that we have to come to a point of realizing that in and of ourselves we can do nothing, of course I do brother and would say amen to that. Yet, consider this brother, before anything has happened to Job, what does God call Job? He asked Satan if he had considered his servant. That is why I keep repeating the pretty straightforward question and you seem to keep avoiding. Are we not Christ's when we are saved? That was the statement you made that is particulalry troublesome to me at least because I know what kind of damage that statement could do to so many who would now believe that their salvation lies in them reaching a certain point or a certain revelation. Do you not agree that when someone gets saved that they are babes in Christ? Babes brother, only fit for milk and not the solid meat. Do you not agree that Job was indeed the servant of God prior to his troubles? ........... bro Frank

 2012/3/27 14:03









 Re: pilgrim

Yes, in "HIM".

IF we were identical TO HIM ..... we are not, needless to say.

We can cease from known sin, easily enough - but to have the mind of Christ every second of the day and do what HE is desiring of us, is a whole nuther topic that goes Far Beyond just the cesstation of sinning.

He lived for others-only-always through and by total 100% child-like dependence on His Father.
He said, 'the words that I speak are not mine own but the Father's and the works that I do as well' [24/7].

When any of us become omniscient - omnipresent and omnipotent as well .... let me know. :)

eta - the Church is "the fulness" as well - being His Body, of which He is to be The HEAD - but it's yet to fully walk that part out.

 2012/3/27 14:04









 Re: As a christian what you wear matters


Sis MaryJane, I hope you don't mind if I ask for prayer for an event over where Brother Colin is. He also mentioned that he works on a rig and that's why I wanted to post it here and not just on the News section.
This area needs our prayers, it appears ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-17505448






 2012/3/27 15:58
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote: That was the statement you made that is particulalry troublesome to me at least because I know what kind of damage that statement could do to so many who would now believe that their salvation lies in them reaching a certain point or a certain revelation.

Frank The statement I made was this “We can't really claim to be "Christ's" until we have "crucified the flesh" with it's lusts and affections”

Which is based on the verse Gal 5:24 and they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

How is the flesh crucified?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

By being baptized into Christ we are baptized into his death. So our old man can be the crucified with him so that the body of sin might be destroyed, so we should no longer serve sin…

Rom6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Jesus said to the disciple while giving them the great commission “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned” Mark 16:16.

What am I adding to the commission given to the disciples by Christ? Are we not to believe and be baptized into Christ death, so that the body of Sin might be destroyed. Didn’t Jesus himself say “he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved”

I hope your getting it?

What is damaging is that you tell people that after they have said a prayer for salvation your saved, but don’t mention that you must be identified with Christ’s death through the baptism into Christ, so that the body of sin might be destroyed.

Quote: Are we not Christ's when we are saved?

Let me change my statement a little to help you “we can’t claim to be Christ’s if we haven’t been identified with Christ death”

You believe you do well, but the devils also believe and tremble…


_________________
Colin Murray

 2012/3/28 19:53Profile
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

If you have Christ indwelling you by His Spirit you are Christ's.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Paul knows that Galatians 5:24 is not a one time thing.

It is because of Christ that God can say to Satan, "Have you seen my servant Appolus (or your name)? A righteous man",

You have to understand that "perfect" in the verse below does not mean that Job was sinless. We know that to be untrue. Only Jesus Christ was sinless.

Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Here, Paul is chastising the Corinthian Church, but notice he still says they belong to Christ.

1Co 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
1Co 3:22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
1Co 3:23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

And here: Paul is not contesting that they are Christ's.
2Co 10:7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.

Here he is beseeching the Galatians who have strayed into a false gospel and does not contest that they are Christ's.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

What would happen if those in the Church saw themselves as God in Christ Jesus sees them?

Pilgrim

1Jn 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. (Not just those with "senority". What in the world is senority?)



 2012/3/28 20:16Profile
onemite
Member



Joined: 2011/9/19
Posts: 168


 Re:

Have you heard Zac Poonen from rlfc? March 28,2012, the live Ustream- he's talking on this very subject. He is differentiating between the old man dying in Rom 6. and our crucifying the flesh in Galatians. Give it a listen perhaps.

 2012/3/28 21:43Profile









 Re:

Colin, is this a discussion on semantics brother? I am sure you know that most people who come to Christ know little or nothing of the Scriptures or correct doctrine. After salvation the Holy Spirit leads and guides into all truth and part of that guiding will take many, as you mentioned, through the Romans 7 path. Now brother, let me see if we can come together and are saying the same thing, for we may be. If someone has not beed saved, they cannot call themselves Christ's. If you are saying that, then we agree. If you are saying that someone has genuinly come to Christ but is still a babe, still learning, still being led and guided by the Holy Spirit, but has not attained any level you care to mention, that these people cannot really claim Christ, then we disagree. And we disagree because of so many Scriptures, some of which Pilgrim mentioned. Perahps if you could clarify. I do not consider myself obtuse, I am genuinly struggling to see what eactly you are saying. So, saved or not saved? Christ or not Christ's? ...............bro Frank

 2012/3/28 21:59
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote: I am genuinly struggling to see what eactly you are saying.

Okay this thread is about “As a christian what you wear matters”

This is what I said before making the statement.

Rom 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

This was the context of the quote along with Gal5:24 that it's the putting on of Christ that’s make no provision for the flesh...as what you wear as a Christian matters.

So my statement “We can't really claim to be "Christ's" until we have "crucified the flesh" with it's lusts and affections” Rev1

Looking back at my posts and the concern that you and pilgrim have shown I could have chosen better words to explain the point I was trying to put across.

With that said here is my revised quote “We can’t claim to have put on Christ until we have "crucified the flesh" with it's lusts and affections” Rev3…

---------------------

Pilgrim Quote: Paul knows that Galatians 5:24 is not a one time thing

Onemite Quote: Have you heard Zac Poonen from rlfc? March 28,2012, the live Ustream- he's talking on this very subject. He is differentiating between the old man dying in Rom 6. and our crucifying the flesh in Galatians.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

But there is this word in that scripture it’s “HAVE” that’s something you possess.



I can see why you and Sac Poonen would and pilgrim can come to that conclusion. As they might believe that the old man was dealt with at conversion and that they have put off the old man and put on new man which is Christ… I don’t know if that’s the case?

This why I said earlier “Let me say some might disagree with me on this, as there is some theology that teaches that the old man was dealt with at conversion? One thing about theology, it has to work in experience otherwise it’s not much use.

“The body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin.” That’s the purpose, to escape from the slavery of sin and that is only when we recognize that our old man was crucified with him. Merely having our past sins forgiven is tremendous but it doesn’t deal with the slavery of sin.”

Which is the point of my statement I made…

“We can’t claim to have put on Christ until we have "crucified the flesh" with it's lusts and affections” Rev3


_________________
Colin Murray

 2012/4/1 9:14Profile





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